Rosewood/Maple Finger Boards - Tone difference?

[Moo]

All I can say is that if you don't hear the difference between say a maple neck strat and a rosewood strat, you're not trying very hard enough. The differences are pronounced and are real.

That's the appeal to ego that can make you hear anything. Come on, all the cool kids can hear it, can't you?

What you just did, intentional or not, is a well known sales technique and it works wonders. A great thing about this technique is you get the buyer to do the convincing. Once you've attached your idea to the buyers ego you're done as once they're invested they will defend any attacks on the idea as they see it as attacks on themselves. Good examples of this would be pointing out a recall in a car someone just bought, they often get angry since it implies they made a bad choice.

If you have to try really hard to hear a difference that difference might just be irrelevant or, gasp, imaginary.

 

[Moo]

I definitely hear a difference. With maple I notice the "start and release" of each note more.

Do you think you can hear this on a recording when you can't touch or see the bass? How do you decide it's the fingerboard and not something else? I'm not sure what you mean by start and release, can you rephrase that maybe as a description of attack envelope or something? Does it bother you if a post has only questions? Can I get you a cookie?

 

[Fretless5verfan]

What is the process of selecting wood for tone and what metric is used to judge it? I so often hear about all this tone selecting of wood but I've never seen the process. Is it subjective or can it be measured and repeated so one could come back weeks later and get the same specific results?

I think you can see it at work in this thread. You want a certain tone, you search around and ask the luthier for the wood that might best help that tone, then you pick. Just like most people that want a certain slap sound out of a bass pick Ash as thier body wood.

 

[Moo]

Yeah, that claim is kinda dubious!

Honestly, of the "big three" fingerboard woods (and yes, there are so many variants of "rosewood", I'm working from Bolivian Rosewood), we find ebony to be the LEAST stable, overall! It is particularly prone to "shrinkage".

I found it to shrink in a different direction than other woods making it way unstable for fingerboards myself.

Hey, you're another guy with access to a ton of basses, what's your thoughts of trying to do something vaguely scientific? I've been itching to do this for years and I seem to be in the mood now.

 

[SamJ]

.... My suspicion is that it's simply a justification for the 10-top and 20 lam bodies folks are having made. My theory has always been that just because a wood looks great doesn't mean it belongs on an instrument. There's a reason that most of the best bass and guitar tones we've heard have been on a relatively small set of wood combinations.

SO TRUE! I've heard this before from multiple sources.. body of Alder, Ash, and/or Maple top.. with a maple neck and a touch of Rosewood or ebony and you're done for the fretboard and you're done! Anything else is ornamental, and non-functional or even detrimental to a good sound. If it aint broke, don't fix it!

 

[Moo]

This ain't like monster cable. Have you considered that maybe it's you who can't hear the difference?

Absolutely, now considering what I'm inferring about your opinion of magic cables have you considered that aural taxonomy of deceased cellulose might be in a similar class?

If they had the actors on CSI-Miami listening to recordings of basses playing in frequencies we have a hard time with in the first place and finding the murderer by telling what wood species it is by listening do you think the TV public would buy it? Even if they made a graph on a computer screen it would still seem ridiculous.

That doesn't mean there's no difference.

It also does not in any way mean there is a difference

There are definite brightness and attack characteristics of a maple fingerboard vs. rosewood. How is *YOU* not hearing them and drawing a conclusion from that not ego?

Did I ever say it wasn't? I did mention something about people getting defensive once invested though

Can you share how you know there are definite differences? How have you isolated this and what specifically are the differences?

 

[SamJ]

Yeah, that claim is kinda dubious!

Honestly, of the "big three" fingerboard woods (and yes, there are so many variants of "rosewood", I'm working from Bolivian Rosewood), we find ebony to be the LEAST stable, overall! It is particularly prone to "shrinkage".

I am no expert in terms of building them, but it's been my experience the Ebony woods necks have been the easiest to play.. why, I honestly have no idea.. I've elected to make my latest bass Ebony for that anecdotal reason, as well as the fact that I've chosen a Ash body, and wanted a brighter bass for slap... thus the ebony on maple neck (as I don't like maple fretboards)

 

[Moo]

I think you can see it at work in this thread. You want a certain tone, you search around and ask the luthier for the wood that might best help that tone, then you pick. Just like most people that want a certain slap sound out of a bass pick Ash as thier body wood.

But that isn't selective at all it's just asking for opinions which were probably formed in the same way. What I'm getting at here is there are often hypotheticals thrown out as proof of an idea. Yet when pressed there are no examples of the hypothetical and it turns out to be just something that we wished was true and we have more of a religious dogma than anything scientific. I have heard dozens of time of this theory of tone testing of specific pieces of wood in the building of solid bodies, surely there is someone somewhere who does this in an objective repeatable way and can demonstrate the results? Without that we just have superstition. IMO.

 

[Moo]

I am no expert in terms of building them, but it's been my experience the Ebony woods necks have been the easiest to play.. why, I honestly have no idea..

One possible answer is that it's expensive, tends to be on more expensive basses, which receive better setup. So you may have found ebony boarded basses play better but the cause might not be the ebony. Just a guess.

I'm a light touch player so I can't even tell FB wood by playing, I just don't touch it. It's fine grain is rather silky so if you actually touch it it can feel smoother than open grained rosewoods.

 

[rob_the_bassist]

wait so the aggressive attackyness of my stingray is now depleted since it has a rosewood fingerboard?

 

[lpdeluxe]

Yes, but if it had the maple, it would be lame sounding.

Sorry.

 

[rob_the_bassist]

Yes, but if it had the maple, it would be lame sounding.

Sorry.

wait..maple is lame sounding on a stingray?

 

[Jackkoon]

When a note is played on a fretted instrument, it is pushing off of metal, that is where the vibration ends.

And I suppose the the fact the frets are wedged INTO the wood has nothing else to compensate with the tone.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

And I suppose the the fact the frets are wedged INTO the wood has nothing else to compensate with the tone.

Didn't you know that frets are just for decoration?

 

[rob_the_bassist]

IS MAPLE LAME SOUNDING ON A STINGRAY?!!

 

[SamJ]

IS MAPLE LAME SOUNDING ON A STINGRAY?!!

I'm sure that in someone's opinion on this board somewhere, a $25,000 Alembic made to your exact specifications and of the finest woods is going to sound lame... don't fret (pardon the pun), and just play what sounds good to you!

 

[Fretless5verfan]

Didn't you know that frets are just for decoration?

lol.

 

[rob_the_bassist]

i think bassists are just for decoration. they are completely meaningless to a group, whether it be for gospel, jazz, or funk. you can just replace them with a piano or something

 

[jwl]

I am no expert in terms of building them, but it's been my experience the Ebony woods necks have been the easiest to play.. why, I honestly have no idea.. I've elected to make my latest bass Ebony for that anecdotal reason, as well as the fact that I've chosen a Ash body, and wanted a brighter bass for slap... thus the ebony on maple neck (as I don't like maple fretboards)

i find the easiest necks to play are the ones that are set up the best, regardless of the materials used. i had three alembics in the 80's. all had ebony boards. all three necks were unstable. the five string ebony fretboard developed a crack that my tech fixed. i could feel all the glue joints in the laminations as well. i sold all three. i find little or no difference in sound between maple and rosewood. i find a dif in body woods though. ash being the brightest. i have a sr 5 that is ash and rosewood and a jazz that is the same, they are obviously dif in tone but they both have a similar high end. peace, jeff

 

[SamJ]

i find the easiest necks to play are the ones that are set up the best, regardless of the materials used. i had three alembics in the 80's. all had ebony boards. all three necks were unstable. the five string ebony fretboard developed a crack that my tech fixed. i could feel all the glue joints in the laminations as well. i sold all three. i find little or no difference in sound between maple and rosewood. i find a dif in body woods though. ash being the brightest. i have a sr 5 that is ash and rosewood and a jazz that is the same, they are obviously dif in tone but they both have a similar high end. peace, jeff

I HEAR you about the set up.. trust me... I've got my CS Jazz bass now at the luthier for a set up.. costing me $120 and will take 3 days to test and set.. etc..

I'm even discussing this very issue of "set up" in another thread now.. but I find the ebony flows for me best.. why? I don't know, but it's going to be on my next Fender for sure.