Ross Clones Vs normal Stomp comps

[Groovehunter]

Hi All

I'm wondering about Ross clones, such as the barge/analogman etc.

What are the main differences between ross clones and normal stomp comps? I find that the ross clones tend to squash more right across the dynamic sound field.

Can you give me examples of where ross clones are used and why they were used?

I'm quite interested in what are the application benefits of using a ross clone over a normal stomper?

basically just give me all the info you can surrounding the whole ross clone thing.

cheers

groove.

 

[xparis001]

I use a ross clone (Keeley Compressor), and I love it. At lower settings it can be very transparent, but it can get squishy if I want it to.

the best thing about the clones (IE Keeley, or analog man) are they usually will have an internal trimpot to lower their gain, and to increase their attack. adds miles of flexibility to the comp, transforming it from a squish machine into a very usable compressor.

I use a lakland 55-94 that I have set up where I run it passive, or switch on the EQ to a typical setting I like, and I've leveled the preamp so both of these settings are the same volume. I set the keeley internal vol trimpot to be equal volume when its level is set to 12 o'clock. I've also set the attack to max (which means a long attack on the keeley).

this way the pickups dont run too hot. thats the problem with the old rosses. if your output is too high, everything is above their internal threshhold. les pauls have this problem. makes them into just big squishy boxes.

with careful settings, you'll find the ross clones are the most versitile stompboxes out there. they do take a while to get used to, however.

as to which one, I love my keeley 2 knob, but if I could do it again, Id get the four knob, as I find myself tweaking the trimpots a bit, and it would be nice if they were on the front panel.

hope that helps!

 

[Groovehunter]

Thanks very much for your informative reply. I appreciate it.

I totally get what you're saying, but I was wondering if you could helpy clarify the 'trim' thing, specifically parallel to what I'm about to say - My overall prob with the set up of the pedal is that I can hear it kicking in as such - there's a quick delay before the compression kicks in - is this specifically related to the decay speed and would turning it down remedy this prob?

I'm using a barge rc-2, it has three controls - vol/decay speed/sustain. see link - Link Removed
Can you explain what the decay speed and sustain do and how they interact with each other overall? Are these the equivalent of the trim? AFAIK there's no internal trim.

I'm more accustomed to using my old aphex and levelar units which are pretty transparent and easy to use. However I know the barge is a quality comp when I actually set it up correctly.

thanks again

 

[bongomania]

The "attack" of a comp is the quality generally associated with whether you do or don't hear it kicking in. It gets complicated because there may also be artifacts from hitting the threshold quickly, or from overlap between the attack and release of each note, and also because sometimes a circuit may use the release time as a way of "controlling" the attack, so the functions on a pedal are not always labeled with their "actual" function.

The Ross clones are great, very musical, but they are not completely free of quirks and artifacts- it's just part of the design and the character.

 

[bongomania]

As far as "where and why" they are used, they are most popular with guitarists, especially lead/solo players, who take advantage of the heavy squash for long sustaining notes.

I don't know if the Barge has an internal trim- if they don't, they probably just picked a resistor of the value that made the most sense to them. The controls on top are not related to that trim, which is essentially a control over the volume of the signal going into the pedal. By extension, it becomes a control over the threshold of the compressor: the threshold of a Ross clone is fixed, so it will react differently to hotter or quieter incoming signals; by raising/lowering the level of the incoming signal, the signal will hit that "fixed" threshold at different levels.

The volume knob controls the level of the signal on the way out of the pedal.

The Decay speed controls how quickly the compression "lets go" of your signal. Since compression is like an invisible hand turning down a volume knob on your signal every time your signal goes over a certain level (threshold), think of the "decay speed" as how fast that invisible hand turns your signal back up to "normal volume" each time.

The "sustain" knob controls how much your signal gets squished once you exceed the threshold. More squishing means more potential for sustain, since you have to turn up the output volume to make up for squashing the signal down, which means the quieter sounds are now louder. More sustain typically also means a much higher noise level, because you're turning everything up.

So compression is always a balancing act between the benefits of peak limiting, more harmonics, and greater sustain, versus the penalties of increased noise and unfamiliar artifacts or changes to the way our notes "hit".

Personally, I wish every compressor had an "attack" control, it's one of the most useful and important features IMO. It's sheer good luck if the attack value chosen for us by a manufacturer happens to sound good for our individual purposes and instruments.

 

[Groovehunter]

Thanks very much for the reply bongo - thats really helped me out.

I've sent Geoff an email regarding the issues im having with the pedal. By and large I'm guessing that there are just some inherent properties off the ross which aren't ideal for myself in my situation.

I will persevere with the pedal though because I do actually like the sound and squash of it.