Thanks for the technical advice. I have modified this "dub" Pbass of mine: Fender 2008 Am.Std. with maple neck, PV63 pickup and a .082 (if I remember correctly) tone cap. This cap is a modern looking Philips thing (see pic) that I ordered from an electronics shop and is not bass-specific, so its tone my be subpar or perhaps it's just fine. Said bass is strung with Fender 9050M strings that are over a year old. The tone of E and A is quite good (although sometimes it sounds a bit hollow to me), D is also alright, G not so much, too trebly. Sometimes I think that it could be that this specific bass, its wood and construction and overall mojo, is inherently trebly and/or harsh sounding.
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Rotosound RS77LD vs Galli JF45105
- Thread starter Phaidrus
- Start date
Well...
The day I bought my '78 Fender P-Bass (summer of 1988), it had Roto 66's on it. Before I went to bed that night, it had a set of Roto RS77LD's over top of what little was left of those Fender frets. And, it wore them until1994 or so. They only came off because, good as they sounded? That sound wasn't quite the sound I wanted from that bass. But, if what you want is a generic, thumpy "P-Bass with Flats" sound? The Roto's will definitely give it to you. I also had them on my '18 Gibson Thunderbird. Killer tone on a T-Bird... I sold that bass, but not because of the tone. Long story...
Galli Jazz Flats? I have those on my '20 EBMM 4HH Stingray Special; I like them a lot - on that bass. On my P-Bass? Nope; not the tone I want from that bass. But, if you wanted a "medium dark" tone, with good low-mids; mids; and some useful highs? They'd be a good choice... I will say that they are definitely the slickest, smoothest flats I've ever played. And. in 50+ years of playing flats? I've played a lot of them...
La Bella DTF's? The 760FS's are darker than the Roto 77's, but not by a whole lot. If you want "Old School Thump"? The La Bellas will give it to you - as will the heavier gauge GHS Precision Flats. Speaking of which... the tone I realized that I wanted from my P-Bass - after trying several kinds of flats - was the tone of a brand new, fresh from the factory '78 P-Bass. With the foam mute in the bridge cover, over a set of the factory light gauge Squier flats. The closest I can come to that - barring a pricey collector set of NOS Squier flats? A set of GHS #3025 Precision Flats, under the foam mute in my P-Bass's bridge cover. Which, while it is the authentic P-Bass tone, is, surprisingly, not very "thumpy" at all. There is a very good low end, but there's also very good low mids and mids. The top end is... well, it's there, but... only just.
So... bottom line? If you can deal with their bridge cable stiffness? Go with the Roto 77's. If you feel like you don't want to? The Galli Jazz Flats would be a good - but a little more mid-rangey - choice...
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What I REALLY like about the Rotosound 77s is that the E string sounds so clear. Most flatwound sets, it sounds too indistinct and thuddy in my opinion. Obviously it works in the mix -- just listen to however many great records with Labellas -- but I love the clarity of the Rotosound E string.
Well...
The day I bought my '78 Fender P-Bass (summer of 1988), it had Roto 66's on it. Before I went to bed that night, it had a set of Roto RS77LD's over top of what little was left of those Fender frets. And, it wore them until1994 or so. They only came off because, good as they sounded? That sound wasn't quite the sound I wanted from that bass. But, if what you want is a generic, thumpy "P-Bass with Flats" sound? The Roto's will definitely give it to you. I also had them on my '18 Gibson Thunderbird. Killer tone on a T-Bird... I sold that bass, but not because of the tone. Long story...
Galli Jazz Flats? I have those on my '20 EBMM 4HH Stingray Special; I like them a lot - on that bass. On my P-Bass? Nope; not the tone I want from that bass. But, if you wanted a "medium dark" tone, with good low-mids; mids; and some useful highs? They'd be a good choice... I will say that they are definitely the slickest, smoothest flats I've ever played. And. in 50+ years of playing flats? I've played a lot of them...
La Bella DTF's? The 760FS's are darker than the Roto 77's, but not by a whole lot. If you want "Old School Thump"? The La Bellas will give it to you - as will the heavier gauge GHS Precision Flats. Speaking of which... the tone I realized that I wanted from my P-Bass - after trying several kinds of flats - was the tone of a brand new, fresh from the factory '78 P-Bass. With the foam mute in the bridge cover, over a set of the factory light gauge Squier flats. The closest I can come to that - barring a pricey collector set of NOS Squier flats? A set of GHS #3025 Precision Flats, under the foam mute in my P-Bass's bridge cover. Which, while it is the authentic P-Bass tone, is, surprisingly, not very "thumpy" at all. There is a very good low end, but there's also very good low mids and mids. The top end is... well, it's there, but... only just.
So... bottom line? If you can deal with their bridge cable stiffness? Go with the Roto 77's. If you feel like you don't want to? The Galli Jazz Flats would be a good - but a little more mid-rangey - choice...
Thanks! How do the Roto 77 compare with the Fender 9050M (with which you do have experience, if I remember correctly) in terms of tone, flexibility, tension and feel?
Well...
I've never used the 55-105ga. 9050M's, to be honest. I've always used the 45-100ga. 9050L's. Which worked so well for me (and still do), that I never tried any of Fender's other flats. However... I think of the 9050L's as the midpoint of the flat wound tone spectrum. Other flats are either brighter than they are; or, darker. So, since the 9050M's are a heavier gauge than the 9050L's? If they're like other flats, I'd say that the M's will probably be a little darker. As in; pretty similar, but a little more low end, and a little less top end. As for flexibility, tension, and feel? I'd go with a little less flexibility, and a pretty similar feel. Actual tension? Too many variables for me to guess. Depends on how they're made, and what's under the outer wrap. In any case? The Roto RS77LD's will most probably have way more actual tension than the Fenders. At 214lbs? Pretty much the tension champs. Flexibility? The term usually used to describe them, is "frickin' bridge cables...". they're reasonably smooth feeling, but... yeah, right out of the pack, they're pretty stiff. They really do sorta feel like bridge cables... While TIJF's are the only flats that I always finger pick? Roto 77's are the only flats I always play with a pick. As for their tone? Definitely on the darker side of the 9050L's; probably the 9050M's, too. A very strong bottom end, but lots of low-mids; decent mids; and even some useable highs. Not as much as any of the Fenders, but... useable. I liked them very much on my Fender P-Bass; on one of my Gibson T-Birds? Well... hex-core Bass Boomers are the de rigueur strings for a T-Bird; but, if you don't want to play rounds? Play the Roto 77's. A T-Bird just.. slays... with these flats. But; use a pick...
So; if you want to give both hands a workout? Get the Roto 77's. If you just want tone of slightly heavier gauge flats? Get the Fender 9050M"s...
Well...
I've never used the 55-105ga. 9050M's, to be honest. I've always used the 45-100ga. 9050L's. Which worked so well for me (and still do), that I never tried any of Fender's other flats. However... I think of the 9050L's as the midpoint of the flat wound tone spectrum. Other flats are either brighter than they are; or, darker. So, since the 9050M's are a heavier gauge than the 9050L's? If they're like other flats, I'd say that the M's will probably be a little darker. As in; pretty similar, but a little more low end, and a little less top end. As for flexibility, tension, and feel? I'd go with a little less flexibility, and a pretty similar feel. Actual tension? Too many variables for me to guess. Depends on how they're made, and what's under the outer wrap. In any case? The Roto RS77LD's will most probably have way more actual tension than the Fenders. At 214lbs? Pretty much the tension champs. Flexibility? The term usually used to describe them, is "frickin' bridge cables...". they're reasonably smooth feeling, but... yeah, right out of the pack, they're pretty stiff. They really do sorta feel like bridge cables... While TIJF's are the only flats that I always finger pick? Roto 77's are the only flats I always play with a pick. As for their tone? Definitely on the darker side of the 9050L's; probably the 9050M's, too. A very strong bottom end, but lots of low-mids; decent mids; and even some useable highs. Not as much as any of the Fenders, but... useable. I liked them very much on my Fender P-Bass; on one of my Gibson T-Birds? Well... hex-core Bass Boomers are the de rigueur strings for a T-Bird; but, if you don't want to play rounds? Play the Roto 77's. A T-Bird just.. slays... with these flats. But; use a pick...
So; if you want to give both hands a workout? Get the Roto 77's. If you just want tone of slightly heavier gauge flats? Get the Fender 9050M"s...
Thanks again! I do currently have the 9050M on this Pbass and they feel alright tension-wise, flex-wise and tone-wise. But I wouldn't mind some thicker lower mids and, primarily, a darker sounding G. The 55 G of the 9050M set is still not dark enough (kinda metallic sounding), methinks. Are the Roto 77 the ticket to dub nirvana? I suppose I have to try them.
Well...
Lots of Dub/Reggae/Funk threads around here; lots of YouTube videos, too. Watched one just yesterday, in fact. From what I see and hear? A set of very well broken-in rounds, with a foam mute under them; and the highs dialed out of the bass, seems to be the path to Nirvana, for Dub/Reggae... I suppose you could get there with Roto 77's, but... I wouldn't want to have your hands, after a set or two. If you just have to use flats? Try a set of La Bella 760FS's - or a set of GHS #M3050 Precision Flats...
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first of all, you have to consider that the gauges labelled on the Rotosound packages are not the real gauges. a RS77LD set is:
50-70-85-105, so the G and D feel pretty stiff compared to an actual 45-105 set (fun fact, the RS77LE and Steve Harris set are 55-75-90-110).
in terms of tension, the Rotosound have less compared to the GHS P-flats:
Rotosound: 214,41lbs
GHS 55-105: 229,10lbs
HOWEVER, they are a bit stiffer, less flexible, so the GHS, even at that gauge, feel easier.
the Fender have less tension compared to both, but they are in the middle in terms of flexibility:
they pull less than the GHS, but they are harder to fret.
that's my experience using this three sets on the same basses, on two different basses.
to be clear, I use the truss rod as a meter:
if I switch from Roto to Fender, I have to loosen the truss rod a bit. going from Fender to GHS, tighten it. from GHS to Rotosound, loosen a bit.
here's a little video I made with them (not new):
they have a characteristic "gnarl", that aggressiveness on the mids and that clearness on every note that is uncommon with flats.
Thanks! Nice clean playing! The Roto have a nice lively bounce to their tone, as you hit the notes.
How do/did you like the 9050M on your Pbass?
well, comparing the three, the Fender are my last choice. let me explain:
the GHS are "the true vintage", recalling the old Fender 850, smooth, flexible, with a woody and mid-bass heavy sound, and so the sound heard on many albums, with short sustain on the lower strings, the "thud".
Rotosound on the other hand, as you could hear in my samples, have an hi-mid heavy tone, bright and sustained sound on all the strings, and again, are strings you can somehow "recognize" in many albums.
Fender are "metallic" with a scoop on the low mids and some bump on the hi-mids, more "modern sounding", overall brighter than the other two, lacking some meat on the low-mids.
I've used them a lot before switching to the GHS on my Classic 50 and on my CS51. with the Fender they both sounded too bright and metallic, and I wanted "the wood" from them.
on this Vintera 60 there was no choice, I bought it for a Queen tribute band, so I went straight to the Rotosound.
what John Deacon used, and the sound I got is spot on.
Re: Galli Jazz Flats,
paging @Rockbobmel @Luigir @StoicStrayCat @bararan @Stempelloos @mickebas @Boneless @Bass V @ColdEye @MattiZ @antfarm @Riccardo90 @Diddywah
I would also page... @Phaidrus yourself, but I'm honestly not sure if you've already tried the Gallis or not.
paging @Rockbobmel @Luigir @StoicStrayCat @bararan @Stempelloos @mickebas @Boneless @Bass V @ColdEye @MattiZ @antfarm @Riccardo90 @Diddywah
I would also page... @Phaidrus yourself, but I'm honestly not sure if you've already tried the Gallis or not.
I have Galli flats on my Guild. It's a short scale (and they are technically long scale strings, but Guild Starfires mount long scale strings just fine) so the tension is not exactly the one you'd expect on a long scale, but they're stiff, they sound a bit scooped in the mids (around 1kHz or so), the E string is definitely thumpier than the others and there is a bit of "wobble" (weird harmonics, imperfect intonation). The latter is getting better as the strings age. They have "firm" highs, I'd say. The treble strings are not bad at all, but the bass strings are not 100% to my liking. Serviceable.
Thank you for reminding me that I once had a set of Galli flats on a Pbass of mine for a while. Checked the link you provide to my
post, it's been fourteen years ago and have no recollection of their tone and feel, hence my asking anew about them. The guy in the video sounds funky - in a rather trebly way - playing those Galli flats.Time flies...
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Haven't tried Galli, but the Rotosound plays and sounds like half rounds. They've got very low output, so I only get to use them on high-output basses such as my VP Thunderbird. The Roto 88 nylon tapes sound more like regular flats to me, but overall it's still a nylon tone.
I can't consider them "very low output". on every bass I've used, mostly passive J or P basses, the difference is just in "1" on the gain knob.
is that "very low output"? I don't think so.
FE: on my Precision the difference is that with rounds or other flats I put the gain knob ad "14:00", when I use the Rotosound Jazz77, the knob goes to "15:00", nothing more than that to have the same level.
To me there's a very noticeable volume drop between these and my other strings (Rotosound 66, La Bella 760). I play through an Ampero, and it requires some menu diving to adjust the gain. I also like playing with slight overdrive, so I prefer all my basses to have a similar output level (and adjust their pickup heights accordingly) for a consistent breakup.
