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Rotosound RS77LD vs Galli JF45105
- Thread starter Phaidrus
- Start date
But which “magic sound”?
James Jamerson's funky flats La Bella 60s Motown magic sound? Or the Pino Palladino smooth funky flats Thomastik Infeld Neo Soul magic sound?
But which “magic sound”?
James Jamerson's funky flats La Bella 60s Motown magic sound? Or the Pino Palladino smooth funky flats Thomastik Infeld Neo Soul magic sound?
Good question the answer to which I can't really formulate. Magic as in a tone that is full of bass goodness and nothing else as bass goodness. Smooth and round and deep and tight and loose and dark.
Examples of this “magic sound” you seek?
Don't know, there's so many examples of the magic sound. Pino's tone, Pbass+well worn TIs, is close but I don't like thin loose strings.
Chromes or lighter gauge La Bella’s other than the 1954 of 110-0.52. Without a definite example or two to go by. We are just shooting in the dark here.
I've used the Rotosounds before. I found them to be stiff. But I also use the La Bella 1954’s now so that wasn't an issue for me.
They were alright as far as flatwounds go.
Had a warm sound. Seem to be consistent from string to string as far as flats go, with not as much note definition from the E string as the G string, as to be expected. They left on a bass I sold. Don't remember much more about them than that.
Might be some more info here on the other brand you are interested in…
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/galli-strings-jazz-flats.1567305/
You can increase the dubby tone with a piece of foam under the strings for any flats. I use my La Bella’s like that, with foam. Still stiff for some.
I was using rounds with the Reggae band I was in with foam mute to get that sound of flats.
I would go with a lighter gauge flats with some foam.
Do you think a lighter gauge helps nail a fatter, rounder tone? If so, then lighter than 45-105?
I find it's more about string construction than gauge. You can find strings with the same gauge feeling loser or stiffer than another string set of the same gauge. It's trial or error and the recommendation of others. Maybe someone with more experience with sets of flats than me
I've used only five different sets of flats in my life. Chromes, Fender, Rotosounds, La Bella, and an old set of new-old-stock Gibson flats back in the ’70s. Each one brought something different to the table.
For you, I don't know what will work the best.
For reggae, I would try La Bella Deep Talkin Flats, La Bella Low Tension Flats, GHS Precision Flats, or maybe Fender 9050s? You want something with a darker tone and more fundamental than Roto 77s. La Bella DTFs (particularly the 1954 Originals) are the most recorded bass strings ever. So for many, that's a huge part of a magical tone.
The Rotosound 77s are brighter in tone, especially when you first put them on. Listen to anything with Steve Harris (i.e. Iron Maiden or British Lion) and you'll hear the brightness. Steve Harris changed his strings before every show or studio recording so they always sound fresh. They dull out over time faster than D'Addario Chromes (my favorite flatwound string), but I didn't like their sound even after dulling out. 77s have a weird midrange to them that's really apparent when they dull out. The low end is weak and so is the high end, but the fundamental is there in a weird way.
The Rotosound 77s are brighter in tone, especially when you first put them on. Listen to anything with Steve Harris (i.e. Iron Maiden or British Lion) and you'll hear the brightness. Steve Harris changed his strings before every show or studio recording so they always sound fresh. They dull out over time faster than D'Addario Chromes (my favorite flatwound string), but I didn't like their sound even after dulling out. 77s have a weird midrange to them that's really apparent when they dull out. The low end is weak and so is the high end, but the fundamental is there in a weird way.
Galli flats are very stiff. The E string is thumpier than the other strings. When new they are very bright and they have a lot of nasty overtones but they dull out over time. Not my favourite strings at all, and they are kind of scooped, but they might sound nice for dub/reggae. They kind of remind me of a middle ground between Chromes and LTFs.
Rotosound flats are very stiff. They are bright and midrangey. Not the right choice for a dubby tone.
Rotosound flats are very stiff. They are bright and midrangey. Not the right choice for a dubby tone.
I voted for Roto77, but again, as per the other topic, IMHO the sound you are looking for is made by roundwounds and equalization+hands.
so, if you like flats, the Roto are a good choice, because they maintain the "brightness" and the consistency from string to string, they are more like a groundwound set.
in the last two weeks I'm using them on a Precision Vintera II '60, and even being already used for months on another bass last year, they still sound bright and middy, with a perfectly focused low end.
in this sample: Dropbox
there's also a line with the tone closed (it's a lick from "Bend down low" by Bob Marley).
I like them, they are stiff in the right way, they sound "focused" and not scooped like La Bella (which have lots of lows and are harder to be heard without using a lot of EQing), nor too middy/dry like the Thomastik.
I've used both La Bella and TI for years, but now I would not use them anymore
so, if you like flats, the Roto are a good choice, because they maintain the "brightness" and the consistency from string to string, they are more like a groundwound set.
in the last two weeks I'm using them on a Precision Vintera II '60, and even being already used for months on another bass last year, they still sound bright and middy, with a perfectly focused low end.
in this sample: Dropbox
there's also a line with the tone closed (it's a lick from "Bend down low" by Bob Marley).
I like them, they are stiff in the right way, they sound "focused" and not scooped like La Bella (which have lots of lows and are harder to be heard without using a lot of EQing), nor too middy/dry like the Thomastik.
I've used both La Bella and TI for years, but now I would not use them anymore
D
Probably not Roto 77s then (even though I personally LOVE them).
Roto 77s are all about the gorgeous mids. They stay almost as bright as roundwounds for quite some time. Even when they eventually mellow out they're still all about that lovely midrange presence, with rather lean/tight lows. They're not dark/fat/thumpy sounding at all, at least not compared to most other flats. Roto 77s really are in a category of their own. They tend to "sit" beautifully in a dense mix but they're very different to other flats. They also have a rather low output due to the monel wrapping, but I've personally never found this to be a problem
Here's an example of what Roto 77s can sound like, from Pink Floyd's Live at Pompeii:
Of course they won't always sound quite THAT bright/aggressive. Roger Waters is using a pick close to the bridge, through a relatively bright/aggressive sounding Hiwatt amp. Roto 77s can obviously sound considerably warmer and more mellow when played fingerstyle close to the neck, but they still won't be anywhere near as dark, thumpy and FAT sounding as most other flats. Roto 77s kinda sit somewhere between other flats and roundwounds.
One thing to be aware of with Roto 77s is that they are very stiff and very high tension. They need to be set up with a low action. If not they will be very fatiguing. The good news is that the stiffness means they handle low action wonderfully. When set up properly they feel great. With a poor setup they can be very hard to play.
I can't comment on the Galli flats, I've never tried them.
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D
For that kinda vibe I would probably be looking at some of the thumpier/darker sounding "old school" flats like LaBella Deep Talkin' flats or GHS Precision flats. LaBellas are a tad "bouncier" with SLIGHTLY more midrange presence (still very dark though). GHS flats are a tad darker, with a very fundamental-based tone.
Both will need some time to mellow out though. GHS flats may need months or even years, depending on how much you play. With LaBella it can strangely vary from set to set in my experience, but I would expect at least a couple of months of regular playing before they mellow out completely.
On a passive P-bass you may also consider changing the tone cap to a higher value for that dark reggae/dub tone (if your bass currently has the "modern standard" .047 uF tone cap). Vintage Fender P-basses and some reissues came with a .100 uF tone cap, which can get VERY dark and "dubby" with the tone rolled off. The more "modern" .047 uF tone cap will never get quite that dark/dubby, even with the tone control at 0%. Be aware that the tone can get dark very fast when you roll off the tone with a .100 uF tone cap. It will perhaps not be quite as versatile as a .047 tuF tone cap.
I voted for Roto77, but again, as per the other topic, IMHO the sound you are looking for is made by roundwounds and equalization+hands.
so, if you like flats, the Roto are a good choice, because they maintain the "brightness" and the consistency from string to string, they are more like a groundwound set.
in the last two weeks I'm using them on a Precision Vintera II '60, and even being already used for months on another bass last year, they still sound bright and middy, with a perfectly focused low end.
in this sample: Dropbox
there's also a line with the tone closed (it's a lick from "Bend down low" by Bob Marley).
I like them, they are stiff in the right way, they sound "focused" and not scooped like La Bella (which have lots of lows and are harder to be heard without using a lot of EQing), nor too middy/dry like the Thomastik.
I've used both La Bella and TI for years, but now I would not use them anymore
Thanks for the files! Well played basslines. It is interesting that the Roto sound good in Bend Down Low as well as in Play for Today, two tracks that have diametrically different tonal requirements. If I hear correctly, they have rather full and bouncy sounding mids, which make the strings versatile. I dare say they sound fuller than the Fender 9050M on my Pbass, which tend to sound a bit hollow sometimes.
the interesting thing is that Play For Today was played with them on the original recording, on a Precision with a pick (as in my small sample), and is one of the sound I've always been looking for
they are, but not that much as many describe. IMHO the most significant thing is that they have a bigger G string, that in fact is a .050 and not a .045 (as the heavy set/Steve Harris set has a .055 and not a .050), but labelled as .045, and that string is hard in the set.
but if you've ever played the heavy sets of Fender (50-65-85-100 or 55-70-90-105) or GHS (55-70-90-105), the heavier G is a thing you probably are used, so that you won't find it too high in tension.
I'm a long time user of Rotosound Swing66, and even in this case Rotosound "mislabels" the G string (the .045 is a .048 in the standard set, as it was labelled in the 60's), so when I tried the Jazz77 they just felt "normal" for a flatwound.
I find that La Bella are much higher in tension, compared to the gauges.
GHS and Fender are more flexible.
regarding the low output, they actually are, but I measured the difference on my basses, and it's just "1" on the gain setting, nothing so significant, that can also be avoided raising the pickups a bit.
there are many "british" examples, like the album "Seventeen Seconds" by The Cure, and many Queen albums. they can sound pretty big and mellow, just think about Bohemian Rhapsody:
or the mellow and "contra" sound of Crazy Little Thing Called Love
however, I'm still convinced that the track mentioned by @Phaidrus is just roundwounds mellowed with EQ, because the bass player in that band also plays with modern basses like Steinbergers.
it's not the "bob marley" kind of reggae sound.
Echoes pt.2 is one of my favorite tracks from the psychedelic period proper of Pink Floyd and the grinding tone of Roger Waters is just ideal for it. To be honest, I'm starting to have doubts regarding the unquestioned suitability for reggae of flats that are all thumpy and dark. Sometimes I have the impression that thick sounding mids and low mids are the ticket for a good dub tone, especially when heard in the context of the mix. May I add that the tonal behavior of the D and G strings, in relation to the E and A, is also important. I tried the LaBella DTF 760FS (45-105) and while E and A were quite good, D and G were like from another string set - too trebly. So much so that when I had to play some notes on the D and G (yes, even in dub you have to play them every now and then!) the bass line sounded inappropriate for the vibe of the genre.
