Rotosound Tru Bass 88 black nylon tapewound - issues?

[Pier_]

here I am again with my signature thread about issues related to unusual strings I hope that these threads can be useful for other users.

so, my questions are about the Rotosound 88, black nylon. I fell in love with the sound of these strings in the last days, listening to the albums mentioned in the Rotosound webpage.

I always wanted to try them, but didn't quite understand the actual sound (due to the lack of videos on youtube).
I've heard them the first time in the Let It Be/Abbey Road sessions video (and the rooftop concert), and that's when I became interested.
then, knowng that they were used by Maby and Flowers on some of my favourite records, BANG! I fell in love!
I want to use them on my Classic 50 Precision, vintage style bridge with slotted saddles

BUT they cost around 40/50 euros, and I red in some threads about issues with these strings:

- issues with intonation, in particular on the low strings (E and A)

- issues with the silk end going on the the saddle on the E string (and sometimes on the A string), compromising the sound

- instable tuning, in particular on the E string, going flat easy.

are these issues "real", constant, or just exceptions?

can I buy them and be sure that they'll sound and intonate (plus stay in tune) well?

 

[iiipopes]

They should be just fine. You will need to modify the nut slots to fit the larger diameter of the strings. If you are not up to it, have a good tech do it, because you need to make sure there is a good witness point, proper width and geometry, and a slight slope back towards the tuners, on each nut slot.

Once the strings are mounted and set up for height and intonation, make sure to press on them slightly at the bridge saddle and nut to set a good witness point on each string for stability.

Most of Sir Macca's intonation issues on the Abbey Road album on his Hofner were simply due to the misplacement of the bridge, and possibly some nut slot work. That was fixed years later by Mandolin Bros. shop in New York City.

If the bridge on your '50's Precision is in the right place with enough backwards travel available for the E string, there should be no problem with the ball end silk coming over the saddle. You might have to enlarge the hole in the back of the bridge slightly to mount the E string. If so, do it with a rat tail file instead of a drill bit to keep control over everything and file down and sideways, not up, so the bridge plate flange is not weakened.

By design, TruBass strings will sound a little darker and thumpier than other strings, even other flats and nylon tapes.

 

[Hairy Goblin Arms]

I'm glad this was brought up. I've been searching the threads for more on these bad boys. I have a pack on its way to me in the mail this week. Thought it would be fun to try on my Sterling SUB.

 

[jasper383]

Much of the trouble people run into with the Roto tapes comes from how fat they are.

There are thinner gauge tapes out there (D'Addario, GHS, etc.) that sound essentially the same, and you won't have the possible troubles with them.

 

[iiipopes]

Much of the trouble people run into with the Roto tapes comes from how fat they are.

There are thinner gauge tapes out there (D'Addario, GHS, etc.) that sound essentially the same, and you won't have the possible troubles with them.

Having played all of the USA major manufacturer's tapes and the Rotos, I agree with the first statement, with regard to the nut and general setup, and I disagree with the second statement. The Rotos, specifically designed to emulate double bass gut string thump, are darker and thumpier than the other nylon tapes from the other manufacturers in my experience. Right now, I have the D'Addarios on my Rick 4002, the Fenders on my custom P/J, and the La Bella's on my Ibby. I sold my set of Rotos because I don't have a bass that needs them right now, since I have a double bass, and I tried the GHS, but didn't like their tone.

 

[Pier_]

If the bridge on your '50's Precision is in the right place with enough backwards travel available for the E string, there should be no problem with the ball end silk coming over the saddle.

I'm always afraid of this because of big gauge strings I used, like the Labella Jamerson: https://plus.google.com/photos/1038...6008800193123510482&oid=103855957966086773281

with the 105 Swing66 the saddle goes toward the neck: https://plus.google.com/photos/1038...6038505921338711266&oid=103855957966086773281

with the Thomastik Jazz 100 even 2mm more toward the neck (I don't have a picture).

being the E on the Tru Bass a 115 (but smaller under the tape) I don't know if I have to expect to move the saddle backward or if, being the string smaller under the tape (and being the intonation related primarly on the core), it will be in a similar position to the 100 or 105 E string.

You might have to enlarge the hole in the back of the bridge slightly to mount the E string

the Jamerson's 52-73-95-110 entered perfeclty in the bridge holes. I filed the nut slots for this set, so I'm not worry for just a .005 more, but I can do it with ease.

There are thinner gauge tapes out there

the fact is that I actually want the big gauge of this Rotosound set. I love the feeling of strings with a large diameter both with the left and right hand, but I can't stand the tension of strings like the Jamerson. they were wonderful strings, with a majestic sound, but even with the action at the lowest possible, it was hard to play them for long gigs, and if I didn't play the bass with them for a couple of days it felt like the first time playing an instrument

so I considered the Rotosound first due to the big gauge with low tension, kind of "best of both worlds".

I'm glad this was brought up. I've been searching the threads for more on these bad boys. I have a pack on its way to me in the mail this week. Thought it would be fun to try on my Sterling SUB.

well, let us know probably I'll try them after the holidays. fill us with pictures of the bridge saddles and everything possible

PS: I was keeping an eye on the SUB Ray4, to please my need of a Stingray-like bass avoiding the high price. how is it? frets are ok? I heard that it's lightweight and well made!

 

[bwanabass]

I have been using a 5-string set on my Jaguar for a couple months now. They feel and sound fantastic. I had it professionally set up and have no intonation or tuning issues.

I really love the slick feel of them. Playing on round wounds feels like barbed wire to me now. They are a heavier gauge, but the low tension allows for plenty of bend and expression.

I play in a blues band and love the thump they provide. I EQ in a bit more mids and highs to make my sound cut through, and I get lots of compliments on not only the sound, but the appearance of the strings.

I love 'em!

 

[Pier_]

thanks for sharing the experience

can you post a photo of the bridge saddles, to see how they intonate?

I play in a blues band and love the thump they provide. I EQ in a bit more mids and highs to make my sound cut through, and I get lots of compliments on not only the sound, but the appearance of the strings.

guess I won't have to tweak the EQ with the Precision. I'm looking for these strings in particular because I always feel a sort of lack in the "softness department"

I have a bass with stainless rounds, for brightness, and a bass with nickel flatwounds for the warmer sound, and I'm still looking for the third sound, the "upright", deeper sound, without loosing all the mid frequencies. I dislike the "closed tone" sound I get with any bass because I don't find it warm, but only messy and muddy.

I fell in love with this sound in particular:

woody tone with nice mids, but even if played with a pick, it's still extremely warm on the bass frequencies. with flatwounds I can't get this wonderful pick sound, it's always too harsh, even if they have almost four years.

 

[Hairy Goblin Arms]

well, let us know probably I'll try them after the holidays. fill us with pictures of the bridge saddles and everything possible

PS: I was keeping an eye on the SUB Ray4, to please my need of a Stingray-like bass avoiding the high price. how is it? frets are ok? I heard that it's lightweight and well made!

I love the feel of this bass! The neck just feels right. Frets all good. It's my second active bass ever ( I had an ibanez in the late 90s) so I'm still getting used to the tonal control - picked it up in July. It cuts through the mix with great bark- which is huge for me as I'm playing in a shoegaze outfit. My only complaint is the super hot pups with certain amps. My home practice amp is an Orange 50w, and they don't like each other very much...

 

[Pier_]

I love the feel of this bass!

thanks for the post

 

[bwanabass]

Yeah, they are for pure thumping. I love Joe Jackson, especially the bass sounds. That was part of the reason I went with these instead of the 77 flat wounds. I play finger style, but I can get a similar sound depending on my technique. When I have longer nails on my plucking fingers, I get a really great sounding attack like you hear in the JJ video there. Here are some pics:

That's a Hipshot Vintage bridge.

 

[Pier_]

Here are some pics

thanks a lot

the saddles are pretty backward, I hope that it won't cause problems with sound and intonation (but you told that they sound good and intonate so I'm hopeful about them

I play finger style, but I can get a similar sound depending on my technique.

nice I hope to reach a softer tone when I "snap" the strings on the frets. I usually set a low action, because I like to easilly beat the strings on the frets, is a sound I really love, in particular playing near the neck.
with rounds is a nice sound, but too bright, and I keep it for the right context.
with flats is almost what I seek, but still too harsh on the high frequencies.

I guess that I want a kind of "compressed", more even and not going "over the top" when I dig in.

 

[GIBrat51]

I have a set on a Rogue VB-100. Aside from looking pretty badass (well, as much as a violin bass can), and sounding very deep, very woody, and LOUD - no issues at all so far.

 

[Pier_]

nice! every day I'm more excited to try this set! if the sound is what I expect, probably I've ended my struggle this damn Classic 50 is so good with everything that I can't decide wich set of strings I prefer.
they are the last chance
if I can have a deep and thick tone without loosing to much hi-mids to cut through, it would be heaven.

I'm starting to find even flats too harsh, and I guess it's the ongoing age once I loved the "guitarish" sounds, then I developed the love for flats, and now flats are even too bright (even the La Bella Jamerson)

 

[iiipopes]

If Tru-Bass is not dark enough for you, the next step is either a .1 tone capacitor with a 250 kohm audio taper tone pot, turned down, or a double bass with gut strings.

 

[Pier_]

the next step is either a .1 tone capacitor with a 250 kohm audio taper tone pot, turned down

that's the default equipment of the Classic 50's Precision.

the fact is that I'm not looking in a sound related to the tone closed, because I love the sound of the strings slamming on the frets, and that comes out only with the tone open.
is kind of wanting more bass frequencies from the strings.

the example of Graham Maby's sound with Joe Jackson is perfect. he sounds "thumpy" but not like a flatwound string. the sound il mellow but there's even some top, but never "harsh".

the worn out La Bella Jamerson were kind of near what I mean, but there still were the "stainless steel slamming on steel frets" kind of tone. I just want to make that sound less harsh, still mantaining a good amount of "softness".

 

[JustForSport]

I wonder how 'all nickel' strings would sound- should not have the s/s high edge, and should be pretty thumpy, but I haven't tried them yet 'cause I like more of the fullness avail.

 

[Pier_]

I wonder how 'all nickel' strings would sound

the Thomastik flats are actually "pure nickel", and they are the middiest flats I've ever tried. for rounds, I've only tried the Fender, but on guitars. they are "crispy clear", with a smooth-but-still-bright top, but the overall sound is "rounder" and musical, with more bass and low-mid frequencies. they can "tame" a Stratocaster making it sound "mild", less aggressive, but speaking about shades of sound.
you can notice it clearly if you know the guitar you are playing, but to another player may seem the same.

but they still sound like rounds, just with a slight "bassier" spectrum.

this is a fine example of the "smoothness" I seek:



I guess that they are in mint condition. but as you can year, even if they are middy, there's a lot of growly low/mid low end and, and on the high notes the sound is never harsh or metallic, and the thump is all there.
it's like they are halfway between flats and rounds. I'm totally in love, and I can't wait to try the!

Yeah, they are for pure thumping.

let me ask you another question: how about the action? I usually like my action low, but I didn't with the .052 G of the Labella Jamerson set the saddle of that string was on the ground, and the action was at the limit (I keep the same saddle height for .045 rounds, and the action is low).
how does a .065 G stay on the saddle? I'm afraid that the action on that string can be too high even with the saddle down.

these are pictures of my bass with the Jamersons and a nice setup.

https://plus.google.com/photos/1038...6008800553205615298&oid=103855957966086773281

https://plus.google.com/photos/1038...6008800386742685698&oid=103855957966086773281

maybe, being the Rotosound big only on the outside, I will set them as with a 40-100 set, and the actual gauge is not related to the action?

 

[bwanabass]

let me ask you another question: how about the action?

how does a .065 G stay on the saddle? I'm afraid that the action on that string can be too high even with the saddle down.
...
maybe, being the Rotosound big only on the outside, I will set them as with a 40-100 set, and the actual gauge is not related to the action?

I think there are two things to consider about these black tapewounds. They are larger in gauge, AND have lower tension.

From the pics it looks like your action is lower than I set mine. The Rotos are a bigger gauge, but they are also a lower-tension string. That lower tension means more string travel, especially if I dig in and play a bit harder. I prefer a slightly higher, medium action set-up to accommodate this, especially with these strings. They feel larger to me under my fingers, but really bend and move when I strike them more aggressively. I can't say for sure that you would be able to get these set up as low as the bass in your pics appears. There's only one way to find out, and that's to give them a try.

As far as the bridge goes, my strings (including the G) stay seated on the saddle and have never slipped off. I use a vintage style Hipshot bridge with a single groove on each saddle. Keep in mind again, that I do stylistically tend to dig in and play harder at times and the strings stay seated on the saddles.

Hope this helps!

 

[Pier_]

Thanks! Yes, my action is usually real low, I want to be comfortable!

I'll try them as soon as possibile, I can't wait! I'll buy them tomorrow in shop, but can't mount them before the 27th of december...