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Running a Tube Pre Amp into a Solid State?

S

sunbear

Nov 4, 2005
5
0
#1
I have a recording question. Admittedly, my touring rig is in a bit of tough shape but I wish to spruce it up for recording. I have a couple of questions:

1) I'm trying to track down a tube head. Currently I'm using an Ampeg SVT450. If I can't is it possible to put a presonus bluetube single channel preamp in the chain to warm the sound? Can this be done safely to all instruments involved?

2) I have an Ampeg classic 4x10 but the lower right speaker blew. If I can't get this fixed prior to the session, what would you recommend? Is cutting away the speaker a viable temporary solution?

The worst part is that I have a 1970's Ampeg B15 Portaflex but it stopped working a couple of months ago. The power still comes on, tubes light, but no sound comes out. A lack of permanent work has prevented me from fixing it.

If anyone has any advice, I would gladly welcome it.
 
#2
I'm not so sure about the bluetube. If you are paying anything more than like $20 bucks an hour to record the engineer should have a better option than the bluetube around. GT 'the brick' is pretty cool for a cheap tube pre. Again, if you are paying someone to record you they should have stuff like this around.
 
#6
sunbear said:
1) I'm trying to track down a tube head. Currently I'm using an Ampeg SVT450. If I can't is it possible to put a presonus bluetube single channel preamp in the chain to warm the sound? Can this be done safely to all instruments involved?
Click to expand...

Yes - though probably not gonna give you exactly what you want

sunbear said:
2) I have an Ampeg classic 4x10 but the lower right speaker blew. If I can't get this fixed prior to the session, what would you recommend? Is cutting away the speaker a viable temporary solution?
Click to expand...

DO NOT cut the speaker - simply replace it with another 10" from Ampeg or at least unscrew it and remove it. That's going to affect the overall tone of the cabinet but at least you won't have chopped anything up.

sunbear said:
The worst part is that I have a 1970's Ampeg B15 Portaflex but it stopped working a couple of months ago. The power still comes on, tubes light, but no sound comes out. A lack of permanent work has prevented me from fixing it.
Click to expand...

Ever think about selling or trading? If cash is a concern, you gotta do what ya gotta do. And if you're doing some recording and that's a priority, it might take getting rid of the non-working stuff and getting stuff that does work.
 
#7
Any real studio worth its hourly rate will have a good tube pre like a Manley or a Avalon on hand. If thats not the case, a Presonus Bluetube will do nicely. You can run into the Presonus and then into your Ampeg SS head, I've done the same thing before. Setting the input gain can be tricky though. The easiest solution might be to run into the Presonus and then straight into the board. The engineer can EQ you direct and add a little gain with Pro Tools.
 
#8
When it comes to recording and mic pres I do not think that tube=warm is a given. Probably the 'warmest' bass sound I ever tried to get was for a sort of old school heavily orchestrated pop kinda thing. Ended up using a passive DI to Neve channel strip, not a tube involved anywhere. There are bright sounding tube pres, there are warm sounding transistor pres.
 
#9
projectMalamute said:
When it comes to recording and mic pres I do not think that tube=warm is a given. Probably the 'warmest' bass sound I ever tried to get was for a sort of old school heavily orchestrated pop kinda thing. Ended up using a passive DI to Neve channel strip, not a tube involved anywhere. There are bright sounding tube pres, there are warm sounding transistor pres.
Click to expand...

I will agree with that. In fact, thats the whole idea behind the Jonas Hellborg amplifiers. Their pre's are designed after Neve boards.
 
#10
projectMalamute said:
When it comes to recording and mic pres I do not think that tube=warm is a given. Probably the 'warmest' bass sound I ever tried to get was for a sort of old school heavily orchestrated pop kinda thing. Ended up using a passive DI to Neve channel strip, not a tube involved anywhere. There are bright sounding tube pres, there are warm sounding transistor pres.
Click to expand...

+1!!! My "warmest" preamp ATM is transformer-based, not tube.
 
#11
I could be wrong but im pretty sure the presonus blue tube pre is a starved plate design. It doesnt actually put enough voltage through the tube to do anything. So if it does warm up your sound, its not the tube doing it. Your better off micing your rig to get a warm sound.
 
#12
I would say take the money you would have put into a Blue Tube and try getting that B-15 fixed!!! That's your recording sound right there! That will warm you up far more than anything else. Just tell the engineer "Don't worry, I brought my B-15" and watch their eyes light up.
 
#13
I would love to get the B-15 fixed, but currently I'm saving up to get an Eden Metro Combo. The B-15 sounds so amazing but it just can't compete in a practice space with drums.

Playing direct is fine for some recordings... but with this session I'd like to use an amp. I was just wondering if using the cheap presonus tube amp would have any benefit in warming the sound of the solid state before it goes through the mic's and the tube pre-amps in the board.

for instance the sound would go ...
rickenbacker bass ---> presonus blue tube preamp --> ampeg sv450 (solid state) --> cabinet --> microphone --> pre-amp --> board --> 2"tape

Would the presonus in the signal chain add anything -- besides possibly distortion?


As for the 70's Ampeg b-15 Portaflex. A few months back it would have issues where the sound would cut out after moving. Usually I was able to get the sound back up but after a couple of weeks of this it stopped entirely. The amp would power on, the tubes would get warm, but no sound would come out. Does this sound like a wiring problem? Is there another likely cause? Approximately how much should I expect to get it fixed if it is simply wiring?

Thanks,
-t.
 
#14
Regarding the Presonus, note that they made the "Blue Tube" a long while back and their current model is called the "TubePre". It's the newer model that people liked based on the Basstasters clips- you really should go to Basstasters and listen to the clips yourself.

Beyond that, you say you plan to go tube --> SS --> tube? Really, sincerely, seriously, don't get fooled by this idea that adding a preamp tube somewhere in your signal path will magically "fatten" your sound. Preamp tubes are useful in small doses but they suck ass when overused, and even under normal use they often do far less good in reality than the marketers of preamp-tube-containing devices would have you believe. The sound of a "tube amp" is much, much more than just the presence of a single 12AX7. IMO a single 12AX7 won't even get you in the same neighborhood.

If the recording studio you're going to is professional, they will probably have an all-tube amp you can use; or they'll at least have a REDDI or V72 or something similar, far better than the Presonus-SS Ampeg combo. If OTOH the studio is some guy with a cracked copy of Protools and some foam tacked up in his garage, then he will have plugins that emulate all the best tube gear out there, and those plugins will probably sound better than the average cheap "real" tube preamp. And he will probably have some cheap "real" tube preamps scattered under his bed anyway.

Additionally, there's no need to capture magical fatness while you record the tracks. Just record them clean, using a nice clean DI; then you have all the luxury in the world of processing the recordings one way, then another, then another in search of the perfectly warm and fat tone -if, in fact, that warm fat sound would even sit in the mix the way you might assume.

Go clean, then add the dirt later. Save your money for either fixing the B15 or buying a suitable pro replacement.
 
#15
sunbear said:
As for the 70's Ampeg b-15 Portaflex. A few months back it would have issues where the sound would cut out after moving. Usually I was able to get the sound back up but after a couple of weeks of this it stopped entirely. The amp would power on, the tubes would get warm, but no sound would come out. Does this sound like a wiring problem? Is there another likely cause? Approximately how much should I expect to get it fixed if it is simply wiring?
Click to expand...

It could be the wiring or it could be the speaker. If it's a speaker, you may need a new one, but if it's the wiring you could get it fixed for pretty cheap, as I said definitely cheaper than the Presonus box. Call your local repair shop and get a quote before you buy something new to get a sound that is already within reach.
 

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