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Running EVERYTHING through a crossover -good idea or not?

Marley's Ghost

Marley's Ghost

Feb 9, 2002
6,636
9,496
Tampa, FL
#1
So my band's PA consists of

2 15" 2 way large mains
2 18" subs
4 12" monitors
Yamaha MG 166 mixer
3 1500 watt power amps (main/mon/sub amps)

I was thinking of runnung the mains and subs through a BBE Sonic maximizer 2 way crossover, sending the stereo outs to the BBE and higs/lows each to seperate amps to the mains/subs. Seperate mixes will go to the monitors.

We have previously only sent kick and bass to the subs, but we DJ dance music from an ipod or laptop during the breaks and would like the subs to give some more booty to the mix. Any caveats? Thoughts on what freq to set the xover?
 
#2
I was thinking if I set the xover freq to 80hz, and I enable the 80hz high pass filter on every channel except kick and bass, wouldn't that effectively only allow those through the subs? And the CD in does not have a high pass filter, so would go thru mains and subs. :hmm:
 
#3
High-pass filters are not stop signs for frequencies.
Use an aux send to feed your subs. Use a channel for your iPod in. Your crossover should be used to keep the highs out of the subs, and the lows out of the mains. Dual mono mode is a must.
 
#4
Marley's Ghost said:
So my band's PA consists of

2 15" 2 way large mains
2 18" subs
4 12" monitors
Yamaha MG 166 mixer
3 1500 watt power amps (main/mon/sub amps)

I was thinking of runnung the mains and subs through a BBE Sonic maximizer 2 way crossover, sending the stereo outs to the BBE and higs/lows each to seperate amps to the mains/subs. Seperate mixes will go to the monitors.

We have previously only sent kick and bass to the subs, but we DJ dance music from an ipod or laptop during the breaks and would like the subs to give some more booty to the mix. Any caveats? Thoughts on what freq to set the xover?
Click to expand...

Unless you're running stereo effects (which I discourage), there's no reason you can't run your PA rig in mono. Don't know your mixer that well so I'll address your situation in a way that embraces most garden-variety mixers.

*Run a single XLR line from the mixer's left main output to the BBE Xover. Set the freq. to 100 hz.

*Run a single high output and low ouput line to the mains and subs amplifiers, respectively. Most power amps have an available configuration for parallel mono where the input at channel A is "shared" with channel B.

*No need to "send the bass and kick to the subs"...the crossover will take care of that for you. This includes any canned tracks you wish to add. Of course, EQ to taste.

*External effects units should be added via Aux sends & returns. External processors (EQs, dynamic processors like the Aphex 204 & BBE Sonic Max) should be added via the main insert or, if not available, between the mixer and Xover.

Riis
 
#8
Zooberwerx said:
Unless you're running stereo effects (which I discourage)
Click to expand...

Can you say why? I am asking because the guitar player would like to run stereo effects from his pedal board.

We currently run the mains in stereo. But all the inputs, except mp3 player, are mono and panned to center. The PA is mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar with some bass as the volume goes up near the end of the gig.
 
#9
seanm said:
Can you say why? I am asking because the guitar player would like to run stereo effects from his pedal board.

We currently run the mains in stereo. But all the inputs, except mp3 player, are mono and panned to center. The PA is mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar with some bass as the volume goes up near the end of the gig.
Click to expand...

Sounds really neat thru headphones or your home stereo rig but loses its intended spatiality give the real-life dynamics of a live venue. For example, a panned left-to-right-and-back chorus would be cool to the individual sitting dead center 30' from the stage but to those sitting along the sidewalls, all they would hear is the swell 'n shrinkage of one effect channel. Mono driven effects are the way to go and this includes vocals and instruments.

Riis
 
#11
Marley's Ghost said:
If the xover is set to 100hz, then nothing above should get to the mains unless the xover is not working properly?
Click to expand...

Nothing below 100 hz should get to the mains...or thereabouts. A lot depends on the slope (LR 24, I would guess) but that point is more academic and not of any immediate concern. To reiterate, anything over 100 hz goes to the mains, anything below 100 hz goes to the subwoofers. Most crossovers have some type of output level controls which will allow you to set the balance between the two.

Riis
 
#13
Zooberwerx said:
Sounds really neat thru headphones or your home stereo rig but loses its intended spatiality give the real-life dynamics of a live venue. For example, a panned left-to-right-and-back chorus would be cool to the individual sitting dead center 30' from the stage but to those sitting along the sidewalls, all they would hear is the swell 'n shrinkage of one effect channel. Mono driven effects are the way to go and this includes vocals and instruments.

Riis
Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes sense.
 
#14
stereo PA is cool if you're clever with it, but it's mostly pointless in clubs where you're often just supporting stage volume anyway.

it (along with clever stuff like aux-fed subs), is completely pointless for folks still figuring out how to use crossovers and such.

run mono, out of the board into an EQ, out of the EQ into the crossover, out of the crossover (ballpark setting 100Hz between subs and the tops) into the lows amp and the highs amp.
 
#15
Zooberwerx said:
Sounds really neat thru headphones or your home stereo rig but loses its intended spatiality give the real-life dynamics of a live venue. For example, a panned left-to-right-and-back chorus would be cool to the individual sitting dead center 30' from the stage but to those sitting along the sidewalls, all they would hear is the swell 'n shrinkage of one effect channel. Mono driven effects are the way to go and this includes vocals and instruments.

Riis
Click to expand...

That's not necessarily or universally true. Like someone else said, in a small reflective room, running stereo and using stereo effects gets lost in the room bounce, but in larger venues and outside (especially outside), one can do some cool things with stereo sound that does not "cheat" anyone in the audience.
 
#17
Zooberwerx said:
*No need to "send the bass and kick to the subs"...the crossover will take care of that for you. This includes any canned tracks you wish to add. Of course, EQ to taste.
Click to expand...

I sure wish I could convince our band leader of this. He doesn't understand the function of a crossover. I try to tell him that whatever belongs in the subs will be in the subs if the crossover is properly set.
 
#19
Marley's Ghost said:
If the xover is set to 100hz, then nothing above should get to the mains unless the xover is not working properly?
Click to expand...

Not the case at all.
A high-pass filter has a slope; depending on the slope, more or less low frequencies will get through.
For example: in an 8dB/octave filter set to 100Hz, 50Hz will only be down 8dB. That sounds like a lot, but it's enough to muddy the waters down there.
However, in a 48dB/octave filter at 100Hz, 50Hz will be down 48dB. That's a lot! Unfortunately, steep slopes sound unnatural.
So, in some situations, it may sound better to use a shallower slope at a higher frequency.
 
#20
yeah, things always seem to slope and "roll off" rather than "cut off" when it comes to EQ and frequency-splitting.

for the OP's purposes, though, a crossover at 100Hz sends all the stuff above 100 into the tops and all the stuff below into the subs.

run everything through it and your speakers will all just get the part of the music spectrum they're meant to handle.
 

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