Double Bass SAD! Ken Smith Fiasco!!!

[Paul Warburton]

After having done some research on the Ken Smith Fiasco, I missed it the first time through because of our blizzards here in Denver. (another one coming today )
Long before this happened, I was seeing and feeling negative vibes on my beloved TBDB. Witness my decision to not continue my Supportive Membership for the first time in about five years and giving up my popular Avatar. This, after being informed by Paul that if I wanted to give $20, i'd have to do it through PAY PAL....I don't want to do it through PP!
Truthfully, after that and many other things, especially
what you're doing to my friend Ken Smith. Yes, I said friend!! Sure he's a pain in the ass...most of my best friends are in one way or another! Ken and I have had many go 'rounds and we still came out friends.
I'm not gonna go on and on with this.
I'll stick around long enough to see if someone can offer an apology to Ken...not the other way around.
Then i'll be outta here as well....including all my posts
FYI, that's 3,555 including this one.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Truthfully, after that and many other things, especially
what you're doing to my friend Ken Smith. Yes, I said friend!! Sure he's a pain in the ass...most of my best friends are in one way or another! Ken and I have had many go 'rounds and we still came out friends.

I also feel very sorry for the way Ken was treated and I always enjoyed his contributions and feel that his presence here is sorely missed!

I know what you mean about people being a "pain in the ass" - so some of the best teachers I've met who are great to talk to and hear play - can seem like that, when they tell you what you need to hear, rather than what you would like to believe!

We need morre people like Ken - not less!

 

[The BurgerMeister]

tellin' it like it is is definitely a necessity in here...

i hope Ken comes back! i always had fun chatting with him and picking his brain... the few times i got a chance to. Ken Smith rules!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Thanks Bruce, I figured I could count on people like you.
This ain't right!
And you as well, Jet!

 

[James Hart]

I only lurk down here as I've yet to actually make the jump to a real bass... but have read Ken's posts on both sides, I'm sorry if I've ever said anything enough to make Ken leave. People like him are an asset to TB both BG & DB.

and my reason for chiming in... Paul, you are one of my favorite DB posters to read. I hope you stick around!

 

[Tbeers]

Wow, is Ken gone now, too? That's terrible. I must have missed the entire thing.

Sometimes his manner could be a bit grating, but it was always worth reading because he had so much practical experience. Another great loss for the TBDB forums....

 

[Stan Haskins]

I hear you, Paul.

I hope you don't leave, too, though.

 

[musicman5string]

All I can say is I agree with you Mr. Warburton.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Just wanted to thank the rest of you who are chiming in, and let you know that I recieved a PM from new Moderator Damon.
I told him not to PM me to take shots a Ken. ( which he did. I thought about posting the message, but it was too childish to bother with. )

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think the question is whether we value contributors for their knowledge and experience in the real world, or for their ability to "play nice" on forums...

I know where I stand!

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Oh for goodness' sake! I'm about to go out and make a living so I can't get all bothered with this right now, but this is ridiculous.

I haven't said anything to Paul that I haven't said in public before. The only thing I'd like to point out now is that, thanks to KSB's deleted posts, we have no historical record for anyone to use as a reference in this matter. Now we've got this "KSB deserves an apology" thread and thus the whole can of worms opened up again. At this point, I would only caution readers of this thread to keep an eye open for factual information about what happened. The fact that there are folks out there who like and respect KSB, and who would welcome him back no matter what, is a wonderful thing but it has nothing to do with what actually happened.

Have a great day everyone and stay cool.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Sure he's a pain in the ass...most of my best friends are in one way or another!

As the one who got Paul Warburton interested in TalkBass several years ago, I hope he will reconsider the thought of leaving. I too gave serious thought to leaving TalkBass during the Ken Smith inquisition. There is no doubt that KS brought a lot of this on himself, but I had hopes that the powers that be would choose to allow a little slack for someone that has given so much to the doublebass community. When that did not happen, I tried to get KS to reconsider but he feels that he was not treated fairly. It is my hope that KS will take some time to cool off and then come back in a few months. It is also my hope that my old friend PW will also take a little time to reflect before making an emotional decision to leave.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

There is no doubt that KS brought a lot of this on himself, but I had hopes that the powers that be would choose to allow a little slack for someone that has given so much to the doublebass community... .

You would think so,wouldn't you?

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Just wanted to thank the rest of you who are chiming in, and let you know that I recieved a PM from new Moderator Damon.
I told him not to PM me to take shots a Ken. ( which he did. I thought about posting the message, but it was too childish to bother with. )

This is called for? The person we're talking about never received an insult much worse than this and here we are with a big mess.

Let me demonstrate the correct way to respond to something like this -- you'll see it in my behaviour in the rest of this thread. A hint: it does not involve taking my ball and heading home, although I'm sure there are many who would be disappointed by that. It does involve not putting down anything on the screen that you will hasten to remove as soon as it draws a little heat.

I've said nothing to anybody here that I have to feel ashamed about or that goes against the very simple rules of the board. No deletions here, ever.

 

[Paul Warburton]

As the one who got Paul Warburton interested in TalkBass several years ago, I hope he will reconsider the thought of leaving. I too gave serious thought to leaving TalkBass during the Ken Smith inquisition. There is no doubt that KS brought a lot of this on himself, but I had hopes that the powers that be would choose to allow a little slack for someone that has given so much to the doublebass community. When that did not happen, I tried to get KS to reconsider but he feels that he was not treated fairly. It is my hope that KS will take some time to cool off and then come back in a few months. It is also my hope that my old friend PW will also take a little time to reflect before making an emotional decision to leave.

Bob, I can dig what you're saying, but there does come a time when we must take a stand in order make other people aware of what's going on. Many people, myself included were not aware of this issue.
As you all know, TBDB has been a huge part of my life. From the death of my wife of 28 years until now,TBDB has been a first family for me. As Bob says, he was the one who got me into this....you dirty....just kidding.
Anyway, I don't think I need any time on this. I feel that Ken has been treated unfairly and as I see it, I don't think any of our higher ups are going to agree.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I've said nothing to anybody here that I have to feel ashamed about or that goes against the very simple rules of the board. No deletions here, ever.

I don't see what's wrong with deleting something - is there a rule about this - I've done it many times?

So - if you make a mistake or find out that something was inaccurate or may have proved unintentionally offensive etc. etc. - then surely it's better that you delete it rather than giving moderators more work... ?

 

[Sam Sherry]

Paul, you know my respect for you and your playing is immense and that will never change no matter what you decide to do. Thank you for all you've done. You are a real example to those who know you, even from afar. I hope you decide hang around.

Bob, I honor you so highly for your experience and your knowledge. Even more than that, though I value the adult manner in which you express opinions and debate issues. It's been wonderful to have you back.

It bothers me to see such a one-sided love-fest for Ken Smith and it bothers me to see anybody, even someone who means as much to me Paul W does, saying, "Give Ken love or I'll leave."

Many luthiers are gracious, social folk and cool to hang with. An above-average proportion are "socially inadept" and as someone who struggles socially I have a lot of compassion for them. I don't know what it is about luthiery that makes this so, but I bet the luthiers here will back me up on the point.

Ken Smith knows a lot and I respect him for that. He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. This is a discussion board: You are what you say and how you say it. If somebody is thoughtless or provocative people will get tired of that and tend to discount the value of the content accordingly.

All this ramble just goes to show that occasionally somebody will say something that they believe is accurate and they're not thinking about being polite or impolite, they're just firing both the barrels, but readers and/or moderators think they're rude. And they get surprised when people call them on it.

If I remember correctly, Ken posted a thread slagging the board and its moderators. (If I'm wrong, please correct me and mods, go edit my post too.) That is the height of e-rudeness. Ken got called on it. He hasn't come back. That is what it is.

Time for me to work, too.

 

[PoorPlayer]

Before anyone else leaves, let me say Thank You to everyone. I have learned a great deal here at TBDB and I appreciate it. We will all be poorer if we lose anyone else.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Paul, you know my respect for you and your playing is immense and that will never change no matter what you decide to do. Thank you for all you've done. You are a real example to those who know you, even from afar. I hope you decide hang around.

Bob, I honor you so highly for your experience and your knowledge. Even more than that, though I value the adult manner in which you express opinions and debate issues. It's been wonderful to have you back.

It bothers me to see such a one-sided love-fest for Ken Smith and it bothers me to see anybody, even someone who means as much to me Paul W does, saying, "Give Ken love or I'll leave."

Many luthiers are gracious, social folk and cool to hang with. An above-average proportion are "socially inadept" and as someone who struggles socially I have a lot of compassion for them. I don't know what it is about luthiery that makes this so, but I bet the luthiers here will back me up on the point.

Ken Smith knows a lot and I respect him for that. He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. This is a discussion board: You are what you say and how you say it. If somebody is thoughtless or provocative people will get tired of that and tend to discount the value of the content accordingly.

All this ramble just goes to show that occasionally somebody will say something that they believe is accurate and they're not thinking about being polite or impolite, they're just firing both the barrels, but readers and/or moderators think they're rude. And they get surprised when people call them on it.

If I remember correctly, Ken posted a thread slagging the board and its moderators. (If I'm wrong, please correct me and mods, go edit my post too.) That is the height of e-rudeness. Ken got called on it. He hasn't come back. That is what it is.

Time for me to work, too.

Like Sam and others, I'm too busy with my real life job to spend any more time on this. I spent an entire day of my life trying to sort things out in the thread that Ken started, and then he decided to delete it. What I've said on the subject in the existing thread(s) represents my feelings on the subject. I couldn't have said it better than Sam just did here.

Ken has been told he's welcome to come back if he agrees to abide by the rules that we all agreed to when we signed up to take part in TB. The rest is up to Ken. It's Paul's board, and on Paul's board, we all agree to play by Paul's rules, or we don't play. It's really that simple. While I don't want to see anyone - especially someone I respect as much as Paul Warburton, whose music I have spend hours transcribing and sharing with my graduate classes here at the U. - leave, I can only say that the board is what it is because Paul Determan created it that way, and he has the final say on his creation and operation. I wish that situations like this were easier to resolve, but I believe that what has happened has happened fairly under the current set of guidelines in place. The best thing I can do at this point is accept that and get on with real life and attempting to become a better person and musician in that real life. And that's what I'm going to try to do from here....

Peace, everyone, and much respect.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

I don't see what's wrong with deleting something - is there a rule about this - I've done it many times?

So - if you make a mistake or find out that something was inaccurate or may have proved unintentionally offensive etc. etc. - then surely it's better that you delete it rather than giving moderators more work... ?

There are plenty of good things about the delete and edit capabilities. There are also some bad things. Chief among the bad, in my books, is the ability to re-write and re-shape history. Don't like what happened? Just change it!