Double Bass SAD! Ken Smith Fiasco!!!

[rprowse]

That's it! I'm officially threatening to leave!
(What do you mean "We don't really care"?)

 

[mike_v_s]

I'm from the slab abusers side too, and I found this thread in the same way you did, but I felt the need to chime in as well, because I think this thread touches on a matter that concerns us all here - the fact that the professional/pimple-faced-11-year-old ratio continues to degrade, as the cats who really know what's what are being more and more often disrespected (sometimes by those who should well know better), and simply LEAVING.

Hey, maybe it's better for Paul...more young kids to buy the products advertised in the margins...but I think it results in a far less productive environment for professional musicians [read: ADULTS], and degrades the overall credibility of the site.

I also can see this being of greater concern to the DB guys too, as there aren't as many young kids lining up to drive the doghouse.

My personal opinon (if I'm still allowed that luxury) is that perhaps a little less of a child-friendly, and more MUSICIAN FRIENDLY environment might be in order...but that's just my opinion, and hey...I'm just a stupid Basshole.

Another BG slug here. Found this thread (and the ones that preceeded it) the same way as the other two. You guys should try to hide this place a little better.

I'm generally in agreement with Basshole on the subject at hand. I've read a number of Ken's posts/threads in my short time here. Sure, I've seen him give some crap. I've also seen him take it on the chin for absolutely nothing, as well.

It does seem as if there is a slow but steady exodus of the informed. I'll echo Dimin for the reasoning: I think the environment can (at times) lend itself to be unwelcoming. You can say he's welcome back anytime...but the attitude displayed here doesn't really reflect it.

I'm gonna go slide back to the more (how'd you put it? Ah, yes: "amplified") side for a while.

Mike

 

[Thor]

Slandered?

Perhaps a better word from a legal perspective would be
'libelled'. (Yes, that spelling is correct as well.)

That supposes that we 'write' to each other as opposed to
'talk' to each other on an internet forum. That is an interesting
discussion for another time.

Given that this is a musician's forum and not a legal one,
and the the poster is a computer programmer as opposed to
an attorney, one might forgive him the minutiae of legal
distinction in this usage.

It is interesting to note that one of the definitions of 'libel'
on Merriam-Webster is:

2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or
representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable
impression

( www.m-w.com )

This leads us to the possible conclusion that libel can be
slander but slander can't be libel. Can't blame Eric for
missing that one, eh? And does it really change anything
about the intent of his post? I think not.

In my business, (frozen seafood) the analogy is 'that all soles
are flounders, but not all flounders are soles.

So, what's for dinner?

Nice party, by the way.

Olafur Gislason

 

[Uncletoad]

It would be a shame to lose another TBDB stalwort like Paul as well.

I had stalworts once. I think I got them with a case of the Clap from the same girl in '82. Pain to get rid of. 2 big shots in the butt and 4 weeks of penicillin.

Hope I never meet up with her again.

You think Ken had Stalworts too? Might explain some of his behavior.

Then again how does that explain Paul's behavior. He's never been laid in his life.

 

[billyfalconer]

Bless you toady. If I'm ever up near your digs (toad hall?) I'll try and catch you at one of your gigs, and tell you you sound good, regardless of what I really think . And I'll make some suggestions for a better set of strings for you .

 

[Eric Perry]

Slandered?

Perhaps a better word from a legal perspective would be
'libelled'. (Yes, that spelling is correct as well.)

That supposes that we 'write' to each other as opposed to
'talk' to each other on an internet forum. That is an interesting
discussion for another time.

Given that this is a musician's forum and not a legal one,
and the the poster is a computer programmer as opposed to
an attorney, one might forgive him the minutiae of legal
distinction in this usage.

It is interesting to note that one of the definitions of 'libel'
on Merriam-Webster is:

2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or
representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable
impression

( www.m-w.com )

This leads us to the possible conclusion that libel can be
slander but slander can't be libel. Can't blame Eric for
missing that one, eh? And does it really change anything
about the intent of his post? I think not.

In my business, (frozen seafood) the analogy is 'that all soles
are flounders, but not all flounders are soles.

So, what's for dinner?

Nice party, by the way.

Olafur Gislason

 

[drurb]

I'm from the slab abusers side too, and I found this thread in the same way you did, but I felt the need to chime in as well, because I think this thread touches on a matter that concerns us all here - the fact that the professional/pimple-faced-11-year-old ratio continues to degrade, as the cats who really know what's what are being more and more often disrespected (sometimes by those who should well know better), and simply LEAVING.

Hey, maybe it's better for Paul...more young kids to buy the products advertised in the margins...but I think it results in a far less productive environment for professional musicians [read: ADULTS], and degrades the overall credibility of the site.

I also can see this being of greater concern to the DB guys too, as there aren't as many young kids lining up to drive the doghouse.

My personal opinon (if I'm still allowed that luxury) is that perhaps a little less of a child-friendly, and more MUSICIAN FRIENDLY environment might be in order...but that's just my opinion, and hey...I'm just a stupid Basshole.

Maybe, but largely irrelevant to the circumstances under which Ken Smith left.

 

[drurb]

From the Free Dictionary

slander n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a lawsuit. Damages (payoff for worth) for slander may be limited to actual (special) damages unless there is malicious intent, since such damages are usually difficult to specify and harder to prove. Some statements such as an untrue accusation of having committed a crime, having a loathsome disease, or being unable to perform one's occupation are treated as slander per se since the harm and malice are obvious, and therefore usually result in general and even punitive damage recovery by the person harmed. Words spoken over the air on television or radio are treated as libel (written defamation) and not slander on the theory that broadcasting reaches a large audience as much if not more than printed publications. (See: defamation, fair comment)

Okay, he should have said "insulted." No need to post that definition for us.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Okay, he should have said "insulted." No need to post that definition for us.

In my book, there is big difference between insulting someone and slandering them.

 

[Basshole]

In my book, there is big difference between insulting someone and slandering them.

Gotta agree. An insult is "personal", slander to me is more of an attempt to ruin someone's reputation among others...something that goes well beyond simply "personal".

I also don't think my points are irrelevant, and apparently, neither did a few others here.

 

[rprowse]

I've just finished my scale practice... I do a different group each day. Today's scale is what I call the Arabic scale, which is a harmonic minor with a #4. Not an overly useful scale (in my opinion), but a lovely sound.
Why am I telling you this?
Well, I was a bit disappointed that no one was upset by my threat to leave. (a few posts up)
I mean, everyone got upset when Ken left.
I'm really a nice, sensitive guy who likes to feel needed.
At least I can take solace in my scale practice.

ps. It's majors tomorrow.

 

[Freddels]

I think that all right thinking people are SICK and TIRED of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I, for one, am not and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

 

[John Sprague]

Warbuttons, no way! You're staying. You know Kenny, he's gonna get his butt kicked out of any place, or walk out slamming the door after a while, bless his heart he is who he is. I sat at a table with he and his wife Claudia at a VSA show, a real sweet lady, and Ken is talking talking talking and Claudia just butted right in and changed the subject 'cause she knows. Ken is Ken, and he gets all stirred up, but don't worry he'll be back I'll bet, he can't resist. Just post a few more "ID this Bass" threads, and he won't be able to resist.

I have a recommendation for Paul D: the next time someone complains about a mod, make them one! I've been there plenty in the past, modding a board is tough, and people really wig out if you make a mistake. These aren't high paid supreme court justices you guys, they're volunteers on an internet message board.

 

[deaf pea]

Well, I was a bit disappointed that no one was upset by my threat to leave. (a few posts up).

From the tone of your earlier post to this thread (#38), I thought you were kidding around about leaving . . . you got a chuckle out of ME . . .

 

[deaf pea]

I have a recommendation for Paul D: the next time someone complains about a mod, make them one!

Now that's a GREAT idea . . .

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yes, his contributions were, at times, quite valuable but the price could be high. That price often included unwarranted sniping, mocking, and insulting of members of TB whose only crime was expressing an opinion or argument with which Ken disagreed.

Well this is the crux of it for me and it shows how TB has changed in the 7-8 years I've been here!

So I was proud to be insulted or sniped at by Ed Fuqua or whoever else was round here and I think people do need to be put in their place if they say completely ridiculous things!!

This is a safe environment - so Ken sniped you - it doesn't hurt, nobody will die - who cares?

Far better to get a "reality check" here - than embarass yourself in the real world, where it could mean physical harm, losing your job etc. - important stuff!!

I imagine TB as a chat at a bar - now if some know-nothing kid came up to an established local and started mouthing off - they would get more than "sniping" ...

 

[PB+J]

I missed the whole thing. Ken was prickly and could be obnoxious, but he knew a ton and shared it generously. I hope he decides to come back, and I hope Paul Warburton doesn't leave.


As far as disrespecting experience goes, I remember Jeff Berlin complaining about not being respected on a different forum. Generally he'd complain right after he made some kind of tactless, sweeping declaration--the kind he made all the time. Being a professional player doesn't exempt you from courtesy, and it doesn't exempt your opinions from scrutiny in a public forum. On the other hand, respect for accomplishment is a major part of basic civility, and I can see how being sniped at by people who don't really know anything can wear you down--not saying, by the way, that that was the case in the thread that made ken leave--I have no idea what happened in that thread.

Generally, it seems to me, this is a pretty open and tolerant forum

 

[ryco]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought KS had started a new band. Dang!

 

[Marcus Johnson]

C'mon, guys, 100 posts in one day in a thread about a guy who's no longer here. We can do it!

ps.... Ken's prolly laughin' about this. He didn't seem too riled when I talked to him via Email a couple of weeks ago.

 

[69nites]

Wait a second here. I was under the impression that Ken Smith got pissed because the moderators wouldn't remove posts he didn't like in his thread about how he didn't like all the censorship going on. That's a bit hypocritical IMHO.

I may not have been here a long time or have a large post count but I don't understand why you would leave a site over a small conflict like this. I think the site has a very pro-Ken Smith attitude even after his departure. Honesty I thought he would have taken some time to cool off and come back.

I've said this so many times on other sites. Staff doesn't make a forum great. The community makes a forum great. Having a conflict with a few staff members on a forum is hardly a reason to want to leave. That would be more of a reason to not renew your supporting membership IMO.