Double Bass SAD! Ken Smith Fiasco!!!

[Basshole]

These aren't high paid supreme court justices you guys, they're volunteers on an internet message board.

OK, I'll give you that...but the problem is also that a number of them ARE mods for the very same reason that many cops became cops; they got picked on in gym class.

Some can be just as abusive and childish as other users (and often more-so), only they do so with a measure of impunity given their position. They enforce their personal agendas, and don't realize their need to be impartial and preferrably "invisible" in their actions is of paramount importance...ESPECIALLY when dealing with seasoned professionals that, perhaps admittedly, aren't that good at dealing with CHILDREN....they've been around salty musicians too long, but offer OH, SO MUCH wisdom.

Sure, moderation's a necessary evil, no doubt, as total anarchy isn't the best thing for any message board either, but I believe minimalism is the key to success here. I'm not saying I have all (or any) of the answers, but it's sad to see the exodus of wisdom taking place around here, that's all.

Perhaps a means of keeping the kids and the grown-ups apart. Keep the skate punks from picking on the old farts, and annoying the cranky bastiges in DB. Also, perhaps everything doesn't have to be sanitized to the level of the 11-year-old mind...because if it is, then that's the very audience you'll predominantly end up attracting...and well, that's the level of intelligence that all things around here will tend to reflect after a while.

Again, I don't claim to be right, or have all the answers...just putting it out there. I always thought "how cool that Ken Smith actually posts here". Well...no more. Someone recently speculated why there aren't more pros here...

I'll leave that question dangling...

 

[Eric Perry]

...Perhaps a means of keeping the kids and the grown-ups apart. Keep the skate punks from picking on the old farts, and annoying the cranky bastiges in DB...

Ken visited the "other side" occasionally as well. He's been known to be somewhat insulting and condescending over there.

 

[Basshole]

Ken visited the "other side" occasionally as well. He's been known to be somewhat insulting and condescending over there.

I know. And should he not have come over? He did, after all, create an electric bass so wonderful that even *I* who own some 25 BGs still hope to one day be able to own one. Was he acerbic? Probably, he is Ken. So what?

I was also just trying to keep it light and lovely, because I know a lot of the DB guys even sometimes joke about the crochetiness on this side.

 

[rprowse]

Wait a second here. I was under the impression that Ken Smith got pissed because the moderators wouldn't remove posts he didn't like in his thread about how he didn't like all the censorship going on. That's a bit hypocritical IMHO.

I may not have been here a long time or have a large post count but I don't understand why you would leave a site over a small conflict like this. I think the site has a very pro-Ken Smith attitude even after his departure. Honesty I thought he would have taken some time to cool off and come back.

I've said this so many times on other sites. Staff doesn't make a forum great. The community makes a forum great. Having a conflict with a few staff members on a forum is hardly a reason to want to leave. That would be more of a reason to not renew your supporting membership IMO.

I'm staying, if that's any consolation.
So long Ken, hi Rich!

 

[bongomania]

It's impossible to like everyone. I figure, as long as the people I dislike aren't actively hassling me, we can be in the same room. Ken's posts have rubbed me the wrong way a few times, but I also defended him one time when somebody else (another big-time pro) made an even more unwarranted mean statement about Ken.

There are lots of professionals in any field who have eccentric opinions that they have acquired through their personal experiences; those opinions are still debatable in a general forum, no matter how experienced or established that professional may be. Just look at amplifier and cab designers! It seems sometimes like they each live under completely different laws of physics; yet they speak as though their version of reality is the One True Way. It only takes a few of those posts to determine who has a tendency to hyperbole or eccentricity, and read their posts with the appropriate salt grains.

All I'm saying is, I deeply appreciate having pros and experienced voices here; but IMO their experience doesn't elevate them to some status where they cannot be questioned, challenged, doubted, or given a free pass to be rude to people who question them.

 

[Eric Perry]

I know. And should he not have come over?

No, no... I never said that.

For the most part, the people on this side are too stuffy for me. I knew I shoulda stayed on my side

On that note... Unsubscribed.


EDIT: Basshole, that wasn't directed at you. When I re-read I see how it could have come across that way.

 

[Basshole]

I'm staying, if that's any consolation.

No offense to you, Rich...but no, it's not. Not to me.

...but I don't think if I stay or go would register high on the give a $#!+ scale for most people here either, so take heart.

 

[Basshole]

Basshole, that wasn't directed at you. When I re-read I see how it could have come across that way.

No worries. Thick skin here regardless.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Ken Smith can be an enormous ass. He's also one of the most knowledgeable and dedicated people I've ever seen post here on this forum. I miss him greatly. Everytime some poor newbie, not too much unlike myself a year ago asks for help identifying their bass, I wonder what Ken would contribute.

The circumstances surrounding his departure show blame on both sides. I hope everyone will just cool down.

We have many fine, knowledgable people here, but Ken is a loss.

A bowl of popcorn at hand, seeing Ken and Branstetter go at it was a great evening. The fact that Bob thinks so highly of Ken is, to me, a testament to the love here. Do you feel the love?

Paul, your leaving won't help. Somehow, I don't think a protest is going to bring him back.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

This is all WARMBUTTOCK'S fault. Frickin' instigator.

Eric, if you think DBer's are stuffy, go hang with Paul Warburton for a night.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

CLARK KENT-US, I can see we're getting lots of help from the slab patrol on your 100-count challenge!

Did all these guys pay the cover? Is there a guest list I don't know about?

Glad to meet y'all, by the way. Stick around and enjoy the action.

 

[Basshole]

CLARK KENT-US, I can see we're getting lots of help from the slab patrol on your 100-count challenge!

Did all these guys pay the cover? Is there a guest list I don't know about?

Glad to meet y'all, by the way. Stick around and enjoy the action.

Nah, I'm done...glad you find yourself so amusing. Back to helping 11-year-olds with questions about Flea on the other side...

 

[THE SAW]

The only thing Ken ever did was to try to dupe you guys into buying those idiotically expensive Olive strings.
By the way, kudos to him for being a good businessman and if people want to spend $300 (hahahahahahahahahahaha) for a set of strings, I say good for Ken.
In fact, I'll say it: Ken rules.

 

[Wilbyman]

Paul, you know my respect for you and your playing is immense and that will never change no matter what you decide to do. Thank you for all you've done. You are a real example to those who know you, even from afar. I hope you decide hang around.....

If I remember correctly, Ken posted a thread slagging the board and its moderators. (If I'm wrong, please correct me and mods, go edit my post too.) That is the height of e-rudeness. Ken got called on it. He hasn't come back. That is what it is.

I don't feel as though I post enough over here to really comment on any of this, but Sam said what I would have said much better than I could have said it. He also conveyed immense respect for Messr. Warburton which I would have done as well.

 

[rprowse]

No offense to you, Rich...but no, it's not. Not to me.

...but I don't think if I stay or go would register high on the give a $#!+ scale for most people here either, so take heart.

Don't be a Basshole.
Ken would have cared about me, he was that kind of guy... deep down.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Where I don't question his talent, ability, or anything else, he is not of exalted status that is unbridled by TB rules because of who he is.

All I'm saying is, I deeply appreciate having pros and experienced voices here; but IMO their experience doesn't elevate them to some status where they cannot be questioned, challenged, doubted, or given a free pass to be rude to people who question them.

Words of wisdom from a couple of renegade plankspankers. What is the world coming to?

And speaking of "seasoned professionals", some of the naysayers might, if they bothered to check, notice that FOG ALLEN plays pretty good for a kid who got picked on in gym class. Maybe his "personal agenda" included practicing. Ya think?

It's not that all opinions, regardless of experience or expertise, carry equal weight; it's that everyone has the right to post, and if we all fill out our profiles and include links to our work then all of the other members can judge if a grain of salt needs to be taken. So if Paul Warburton weighs in on Bill Evans or Red Mitchell, you can be sure my eyes are peeled; and if a high-school kid who just bought "Waltz For Debby" posts, I know what context to put that in. And if LemmyIsGod666 and Arnold Schnitzer both post on the topic of bass restoration, you can bet I'll put more faith in the words of the guy who has actually done the job before many many times.

+ 1

Well spoken.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

OLIVS FOR 300?! WHERE?

 

[Tbeers]

OK, I'll give you that...but the problem is also that a number of them ARE mods for the very same reason that many cops became cops; they got picked on in gym class.

Some can be just as abusive and childish as other users (and often more-so), only they do so with a measure of impunity given their position. They enforce their personal agendas, and don't realize their need to be impartial and preferrably "invisible" in their actions is of paramount importance...ESPECIALLY when dealing with seasoned professionals that, perhaps admittedly, aren't that good at dealing with CHILDREN....they've been around salty musicians too long, but offer OH, SO MUCH wisdom.

Basshole I think these comments are inappropriate. Moderating a forum can be a tough job. I was a mod for the forum of an online video game a couple years ago, I know that sounds silly.... No matter what kind of message boards you're moderating, it's a thankless task. At best your presence goes unnoticed, and at worst you have people threatening legal action against you (I've been there). You're just as wrong about moderators as you are about police officers.

As for your second point regarding impartiality. I don't know if you mean to contradict yourself so clearly, but what you're asking for is far from impartiality. How can you be "ESPECIALLY" impartial with "seasoned professionals"? That's absurd.

And what's your real point about "children" on these forums? Do you actually want to see some kind of a policy change, like a minimum age for membership, or are you just ranting? The best part of this place, in my opinion, is young musicians getting advice from those with more experience. I fall into the young category (19)... and without people in my age group, this place would just be a bunch of old men having a circle jerk. I listen to guys like Ed Fuqua and Paul W and Ken because they know how it is and they have a wealth of knowledge to pass on. But if some bigshot guy becomes obnoxious or just a bit too condescending, and it has happened in the past, I reserve the right to call him out on it. If an old member with a lot of experience gets offended at someone sticking up to him, then it's his own problem. That's my 2 cents. I miss Ken's presence on the forums because his knowledge and insight is irreplaceable. But I don't feel bad for the guy, not one bit.

 

[drurb]

In my book, there is big difference between insulting someone and slandering them.

You mean between insulting someone and slandering him (not them). Yes, there is a difference and you were correct to point out that the poster chose the wrong word. His meaning, however, was clear.

 

[drurb]

...I also don't think my points are irrelevant, and apparently, neither did a few others here.

Your points were not relevant to the circumstances surrounding Ken Smith's departure.