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Sadowsky Sounding "Muddy"

#21
If the engineer does a lot of live stuff, then it might just be a bad habit on his part, boosting the 120-200hz which often sounds cool live, but not so much in a studio setting.

I had a Sadowsky UV-70 V which I used for some hardcore/metal stuff, and my problem was always the opposite; To bright - especially with a pick.

If you´re running things through a distortion pedal, it might be a type of distortion that distorts on the "dark side" which can make it sound muddy, but IMO it could probably be fixed through some quick EQ settings.
 
#22
I am a realist - I believe in being able re-produce one's recorded performance live.

I don't want to have to lie when people see me with Sadowsky live and ask "wow - the tone on you're record is amazing - I love the Sadowsky tone!" Umm, actually it was an Ibanez...

Should I now buy an Ibanez (which would mean reluctantly selling the Sadowsky) to keep with this trend?
 
#24
Sumlevoll said:
If the engineer does a lot of live stuff, then it might just be a bad habit on his part, boosting the 120-200hz which often sounds cool live, but not so much in a studio setting.

I had a Sadowsky UV-70 V which I used for some hardcore/metal stuff, and my problem was always the opposite; To bright - especially with a pick.

If you´re running things through a distortion pedal, it might be a type of distortion that distorts on the "dark side" which can make it sound muddy, but IMO it could probably be fixed through some quick EQ settings.
Click to expand...

I'm a finger player and the engineer put a little grit on my tone (purely for the band to listen to - was never going to be recorded that way).
 
#25
metallist said:
Rather reputed engineer (in Australia).
Studio setting.
Volume max, VTC max, equal blend of p/ups, bass & treble flat/zero.
New strings each session (2 days/2 sets of strings).
EXL 165-5.
New battery on day 1.
Bass is a couple of months old.

To me it sounded great. We tested 4 basses on day one (My Sadowsky M5-25 & Schecter Studio 6 w/ active EMG's and his Ibanez & Fender) and mutually agreed that the Sadowsky was the one.

However a week later and with fresh ears things changed.
Click to expand...

Don't max the VTC - leave it all the way off (forward). Then roll the pickups slightly to the bridge (forward on the blend knob) just a skosh. The mud is from the VTC.
 
#32
metallist said:
Hang-on - I might have confused myself and everyone else!

The tone of the bass was less-bright when the VTC was turned all the way towards the neck. I had the VTC turned all the way towards the bridge (if looking from the view point of playing) and it was much brighter, almost zingy.
Click to expand...

Just did my research...

From Sadowsky:
"The Vintage Tone Control (formerly referred to as the "passive tone control") is a treble roll-off that makes the bass warmer and darker sounding".

So with this in mind having the VTC full towards the neck is essentially cranking the VTC. Full towards the bridge would the cutting the VTC.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#33
VTC is essentially a tone roll-off and I found it useful for taming new strings. You had it off - which means no roll-off. On the Modern with the pups 50/50 that should have gobs of lo mids and mids with a bunch of top end. That could sound "muddy" depending on the mix but if should actually slice through most any mix like a laser.

Are you playing with a pick or fingers?
 
#34
metallist said:
Hang-on - I might have confused myself and everyone else!

The tone of the bass was less-bright when the VTC was turned all the way towards the neck. I had the VTC turned all the way towards the bridge (if looking from the view point of playing) and it was much brighter, almost zingy.
Click to expand...

VTC is nothing more than a passive tone control. You are correct. Cranked (all the way clockwise) is off... No treble cut
 
#35
Pickebass said:
Don't have know your engineer, but he's probably more comfortable mixing with a bass he knows. Probably has not worked with many basses like yours and can get the tone HE wants quicker with an instrument he knows better.
Click to expand...

I concur. Is this the first time that the engineer has mixed a Sadowsky bass of any kind? Also, is it possible to post a sample clip of one of the songs without any repercussions? I wonder what Mr. Sadowsky would have to say about this?

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste! :cool:
 
#36
nostatic said:
VTC is essentially a tone roll-off and I found it useful for taming new strings. You had it off - which means no roll-off. On the Modern with the pups 50/50 that should have gobs of lo mids and mids with a bunch of top end. That could sound "muddy" depending on the mix but if should actually slice through most any mix like a laser.

Are you playing with a pick or fingers?
Click to expand...

I'm a finger player.
 
#37
Sounds like a frustrating situation. You might very well have to settle with the Ibanez in this recording session. If you are cool with the Ibanez tone and it keeps the process moving forward without burning up studio time and money, so be it.

However, whatever you do, don't get rid of the Sadowsky. You have a winner bass here and I'm sure you'll be able to use it in many more live and recording situations.

Best of luck with your current project.

Bones
 
#39
alembicbones said:
Sounds like a frustrating situation. You might very well have to settle with the Ibanez in this recording session. If you are cool with the Ibanez tone and it keeps the process moving forward without burning up studio time and money, so be it.

However, whatever you do, don't get rid of the Sadowsky. You have a winner bass here and I'm sure you'll be able to use it in many more live and recording situations.

Best of luck with your current project.

Bones
Click to expand...

Thanks mate - that is similar to what I was thinking. To be honest I just want to get the CD recorded and get on with it. Call it being the better musician if you will... :)

P.S. I will NEVER get rid of the Sadowsky!
 
#40
'Muddy' is one of those expressions that we often use to say either 'I don't like it' or 'something-something-low-end-frequency-clash'.

I can't imagine this being about a general lack of mids, probably more to do with which mid frequencies are present and how they interacts with the mix that he has most likely made after recording the bass tracks. If your bass generally works in the band context then in theory it should work on a recording with that band as well, unless he is being very creative with the mix or you are normally compensating for an EQ problem with volume.

I'd say try favoring the bridge and perhaps use a spectrum analyzer to pinpoint the messy places, but if he insists and you end up using his Ibanez, then don't worry. Of course the Sadowski could have done the job, and it will continue to do the job live. If it turns out there is a general EQ problem in your band then this situation is a good thing, as it makes you aware of it. If not, do what you have to do to make a good recording and keep as many people happy as possible, preferably yourself included.

Cheers

Martin
 

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