"Same fret" technique

[Stevej66]

Thanks vindibona, yes of course c# d# etc.

OK somethings just occurred to me, and I'm either going to feel quite pleased with myself or look really daft. When I was playing it last night, it was all on the same string. All on g string for example, your notes above - c# d# e, then down a fourth to b and so on, finishing a string down on a.

I learned a lot from that, as said, but I also wondered how to relate it to the OP question of playing same fret different string. But then I realised you've got c# d# on the same fret, albeit 2 strings apart, then along one to e. Is that what you meant about the fourth finger doing the first 2 notes? So then little finger plays e. And there's an equivalent set for every following triple.

OK if so I get that, but confused slightly as surely it would mean coming down an octave on the second note? And Steve''s pdf reads as all the same octave, which is why I was playing it on the same string.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Les Fret]

If you start with the 4th finger on the C# (Dstring/11) the first two figures can be played in that position, then shift for the third triplet (beginning on A) so the 2nd finger is on the A (D-7) and the rest can be played in that position.

I actually thought it was intended to start with first finger on C# (g string) and then stay in the 6th position. But you can also start with 4th finger on C# on the D string and then play everything in the 7th position. And you can also start with the 2nd finger on the C# on the D string and play everything in the 9th position.

Not sure if it is intended like that but you can play it 3 positions.

 

[vindibona1]

Thanks vindibona, yes of course c# d# etc.

OK somethings just occurred to me, and I'm either going to feel quite pleased with myself or look really daft. When I was playing it last night, it was all on the same string. All on g string for example, your notes above - c# d# e, then down a fourth to b and so on, finishing a string down on a.

I learned a lot from that, as said, but I also wondered how to relate it to the OP question of playing same fret different string. But then I realised you've got c# d# on the same fret, albeit 2 strings apart, then along one to e. Is that what you meant about the fourth finger doing the first 2 notes? So then little finger plays e. And there's an equivalent set for every following triple.

OK if so I get that, but confused slightly as surely it would mean coming down an octave on the second note? And Steve''s pdf reads as all the same octave, which is why I was playing it on the same string.

Thanks

Steve

It's good that you recognized that it COULD be played only on one string. But it was brought in as an example of how "string-crossover" works. There are multiple ways you could play this exercise as it only goes up to a D#. As you know the bass is tuned in "4ths". So if you look at the 3rd and 4th note you'll see that the E and the B, while intervals of a 4th, can be played on the same string.But is that the easiest and most musical way to play it? But most might find that it may be more fluid if both notes are played on the 9th fret (as one way). A 6 string bass might have more options yet. How this excercise relates is the E to B can be done on the same fret as a "cross-over". Now, if you look at the 5th and 6th note, D to A, there are a number of ways you can approach this. At some point you will have to shift up or down the neck, and that's where you have to decide what works best. That is both the beauty and confusion of the bass (or guitar). These are tactical choices. While in the learning stage of the instrument (as I still largely am) learning to play the exercise multiple ways helps you explore those choices so that when you sees these figures or similar figures in other music you'll encounter you'll have a better idea of what works best for you and the music. You'll learn to make decisions on the spot and "chunk" the information- which leads to the ability to "sight read", which I can do on other instruments but is currently my personal goal on bass.

 

[SteveCS]

I actually thought it was intended to start with first finger on C# (g string) and then stay in the 6th position. But you can also start with 4th finger on C# on the D string and then play everything in the 7th position. And you can also start with the 2nd finger on the C# on the D string and play everything in the 9th position.

Not sure if it is intended like that but you can play it 3 positions.

Since the objective is developing strategies for playing on the same fret, the idea is to stay in position. So the C# should be stopped with 1 at 6 on the 1st (G) string then find fingerings that end 1) with E at 7 on the A string with LH 2nd finger and 2) with E at 12 on the E string with LH 4th finger...

 

[vindibona1]

Since the objective is developing strategies for playing on the same fret, the idea is to stay in position. So the C# should be stopped with 1 at 6 on the 1st (G) string then find fingerings that end 1) with E at 7 on the A string with LH 2nd finger and 2) with E at 12 on the E string with LH 4th finger...

Like I said... Multiple ways to play it. Of course your suggest way is easier. I don't know why I didn't see the pattern. Why I started with 4th finger on D/11 I cannot tell you. Thanks for pointing out what was hiding in plain sight :0.

 

[Les Fret]

Since the objective is developing strategies for playing on the same fret, the idea is to stay in position. So the C# should be stopped with 1 at 6 on the 1st (G) string then find fingerings that end 1) with E at 7 on the A string with LH 2nd finger and 2) with E at 12 on the E string with LH 4th finger...

You still have the same fret strategie when you play the C# on the d string with 4th or 2nd finger.

 

[SteveCS]

You still have the same fret strategie when you play the C# on the d string with 4th or 2nd finger.

I designed it to encourage exploration of possibilities as much as anything else.

 

[Les Fret]

Now, if you look at the 5th and 6th note, D to A, there are a number of ways you can approach this. At some point you will have to shift up or down the neck, and that's where you have to decide what works best.

What do you mean you have to shift up or down the neck with the D and A. That's not necessary. You can play the D#with the 3rd finger and A with 2nd. It's not a D but D#. But even it was D there is no need to shift.

 

[vindibona1]

What do you mean you have to shift up or down the neck with the D and A. That's not necessary. You can play the D#with the 3rd finger and A with 2nd. It's not a D but D#. But even it was D there is no need to shift.

Not "necessary" or the most efficient... but one of the many tactics one can use and probably should explore for versatility and learning the fingerboard fully.

 

[Les Fret]

Not "necessary" or the most efficient... but one of the many tactics one can use and probably should explore for versatility and learning the fingerboard fully.

Sure! But not the first thing I would think of when playing that passage.

 

[SteveCS]

... And Steve''s pdf reads as all the same octave, which is why I was playing it on the same string.

Thanks

Steve

I'm not sure what you mean by this, as the whole thing goes from Bb at 15 on the G string down to F at 1 on the E string, which is rather more than 1 octave - I make it 2 plus a 4th. If it helps I could add 'suggested' TAB/Fingerings.

But anyways, I'm pleased you made me take another look as I found a notation anomaly in measure 10 where the B chord appears - it was notated as Cb not B - not wrong but not clear. So to make it clear I've also added enharmonic changes Gb to F# in bars 10 and 24 - the corrected version (with additional chord symbols added) is attached.

 

[Stevej66]

Sorry Steve, by that I meant that as the three notes follow each other, I took them to be played like that, not playing, say C# then dropping an octave for the D#.

I think I'm just complicating the issue here, so I'll butt out and concentrate on working on what you've all kindly already provided.

Thanks everyone

Steve

 

[SteveCS]

Sorry Steve, by that I meant that as the three notes follow each other, I took them to be played like that, not playing, say C# then dropping an octave for the D#.

I think I'm just complicating the issue here, so I'll butt out and concentrate on working on what you've all kindly already provided.

Thanks everyone

Steve

I see. Yes - played as written. But don't butt out, especially as you started the thread! The 'Dominants' exercise is relevant to your original question because it does not use the barre/roll, whereas the first one I posted does.

I've attached the TAB version which might help to clarify things. The basic fingering pattern is given in the first line, then the 'ascending' fingering - which will need extension, pivot and shift - is in bars 20-22 on line 4. These TAB/Fingerings are just suggestions, not necessarily 'the answer'.

 

[vindibona1]

I've attached the TAB version which might help to clarify things. The basic fingering pattern is given in the first line, then the 'ascending' fingering - which will need extension, pivot and shift - is in bars 20-22 on line 4. These TAB/Fingerings are just suggestions, not necessarily 'the answer'.

Thanks for the tab addition. I'm going to make a suggestion for others that I know i'll be doing for myself. I'm going to have the tab and non-tab verions both printed out, starting them off side-by-side. I will only use the tab version for reference when I'm in a quandry as to how to flow through the exercise, but reading off of the "standard notation only" version. Anything confusion or reminders will be marked up on the standard version. I'll be doing this for two reasons: I need my brain to have a direct connection from the notation to the hands, and in the process be able to visualize the sounds/music. While tab can be helpful to sort things out, to me looking at tab is like mashed up canned food. You know what you're about to eat, but don't know what it will taste like until it is in your mouth. Whereas, continuing the metaphor, I can look at that juicy steak and know ahead of time what to expect. Secondly, I have an eye/brain coordination issue. Extraneous markings, to me, are like camoflage and takes my focus away from where my eyes have to flow. Conversely, I do want to get better at reading tab, and will spend some time with it separately.

 

[Stevej66]

Ah! got you. Thanks Steve that has been really helpful with the tabbing, and I'm finally fully getting what you mean. I'm a bit like British public transport, slow, take a while to get there, probably get lost somewhere in the middle, but arrive in the end.

OK, that's my evening taken care of. I'll hopefully report back with some progress.

Best wishes all

Steve

 

[SteveCS]

Whilst we are on the subject, and before the thread sinks into oblivion, I would recommend checking out something like 40 Variations, by Sevcik, Op.3. There are plenty of 4ths throughout...

 

[vindibona1]

Whilst we are on the subject, and before the thread sinks into oblivion, I would recommend checking out something like 40 Variations, by Sevcik, Op.3. There are plenty of 4ths throughout...
View attachment 3821558 View attachment 3821559 View attachment 3821560

Thank you for the additional etuden. I've printed them for current and future practice.

Not to get too far off topic, but I want to mention one aspect of this that makes me love music so much- beyond the music itself. At the bottom of the second page, there is an exercise for "changing of of bowing styles" translated into 5 languages. I am fascinated by the similarities and differences in the way that each language expresses the same thing (it was helpful to have studied Russian ). Just in basic terms, one thing I find most interesting in different languages is how compact or drawn out expressions are to say the same thing. Next time you're in the subway or somewhere where the signs are in Spanish and English, just examine the number of words needed to say the same thing. I think my love of languages comes from music where we readily see instructions in English, Italian, French, German and Russian. They so much illustrate our commonalities and differences. Yet once we get to the music itself there is only one language. [Edit/addition] Perhaps this might be the most important reason that formal music education should be mandatory everywhere. You'll notice that from as long as we have written record, music has transcended borders and cultures and its a fact that musicans are the most accepting of all peoples, regardless of race, ethnicity- and even embracing different cultures. Isn't that what the world needs more of, especially in these times?

Once again Steve, thanks for your post. They are so jammed with detail and information that is below the surface.

 

[SteveCS]

Thank you for the additional etuden. I've printed them for current and future practice.

Not to get too far off topic, but I want to mention one aspect of this that makes me love music so much- beyond the music itself. At the bottom of the second page, there is an exercise for "changing of of bowing styles" translated into 5 languages. I am fascinated by the similarities and differences in the way that each language expresses the same thing (it was helpful to have studied Russian ). Just in basic terms, one thing I find most interesting in different languages is how compact or drawn out expressions are to say the same thing. Next time you're in the subway or somewhere where the signs are in Spanish and English, just examine the number of words needed to say the same thing. I think my love of languages comes from music where we readily see instructions in English, Italian, French, German and Russian. They so much illustrate our commonalities and differences. Yet once we get to the music itself there is only one language. I'll stop here.

Once again Steve, thanks for your post. They are so jammed with detail and information that is below the surface.

I would get the full suite of variations. It is only a few pages but covers a whole load of stuff. As you noticed it is mainly concermed with bowing technique, hence the relative simplicity of the theme and the notes. But for the bass guitarist it covers a wide range of articulation, dynamics, muting, time and key signatures, and presents some quite challenging fingering questions along with some blistering tempi...

 

[Vinny_G]

Maybe my approach is unique, but I have no trouble using the same finger in barre fashion by shifting where on the finger the pressure is coming from. It’s part of my economy of motion ethos. May not work for everyone I concede.

I do the same, I don't think your approach is unique. I worked on this technique a lot before I managed to do it cleanly, but now it's second nature and this economy of motion makes all the difference with some bass lines.