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Same Old Fender....................

Laredo

Laredo

Nov 27, 2005
1,125
12
Upstate, NY
#1
I while traveling on business recently, I stopped by several music stores, some were GC:scowl:...............I have enough Fender wood on my collection to build a boat, so I am not "picking" on them, but the new stuff that I saw was not that much better than the old.:rollno: I am not refering to the new features, or improved case, but the variances between guitars. I used to joke about how you could go into a large music store and play a dozen MIA basses (P or J) of the same type, and typically find two that you like:)! It always seemed like some had fret issues, or string alignment probems. Weight varied, neck "playability" was different, and so on...............Not to mention that some just sounded better (to me)! I just found it hard to purchase a Fender "sight unseen" through an on-line store, because it was "hit or miss". I really do not think it is that much different for the 2008 MIA Basses, at least from the sampling that I saw:eek:! The reason I am writing this is because I am considering a new P Bass. I don't doubt the 2008 MIA models are better, I just think it is still "buyer beware". I will probably get one that I play and see first hand, rather than an on-line purchase. I have seen lots of posts about the improved quality control, but I suppose it is still a "work in progress":D................
 
#2
I understand your concerns and I won't buy ANY bass without getting my hands on it first.

As far as the inconsistency of tone is concerned, It wouldn't surprise me to find that many manufacturer' basses are the same way. I've played a Sadowsky I thought sounded like doo-doo.
 
#3
I think it is unrealistic to expect that the factory setup will
1. be right for everyone and
2. that it won't aclimatize ...

All my basses have come to me over the net. Either from here, The old Dudepit or BABP. Each one has had to have some truss rod tweaks and often fret sprout - one actually tried to cough out a fret - all as they adjust to their new home in the "Great North Wet". The adkjustment period here can be a matter of weeks.

When it comes to purchasing a bass off the shelf, I agree that you have to play through a bunch to find the one that speaks to you. The setup stuff though? That is the shop's deal. Are they selling at 40% off list - best plan on paying for a setup. Probably not at the shop as they probably can't afford a skilled luthier on those margins (or lack thereof...) Are they selling at 10% off list ? They had best do a sterling job of that setup...

These issues are not exclusive to Fender - I've had two Lakland Skylines with poorly aligned necks - both were correctable but required a luthier's attention to get them correct... Fender has so much more inventory out in the market place that it is sometimes easy to pick on them.

We're dealing with wood here. Wood changes over time. Changes with the season from dry to wet, at least up here it does. It's not like steel or aluminum or formica...

When I lived in the mid-west I could spell the word luthier... A setup was something I did once and then maybe again when changing string guages... Here I know two luthiers personally and seem to have to work with them on a seasonal basis ...

Lot's o' variables at play when trying out new basses. One advantage to buying used ? That wood has been out of the factory for a while, it's had a little more time to settle down... If I had the option, I would love to be able to buy used, but select from basses that have already aclimatized to the northwest - not really an option where I live though.

Lastly - you think basses are tough ? Try it with acoustic guitars ... talk about variability
 
#4
I've become pretty well convinced that the only way to insure reasonable consistency on the showroom floor is to design gear that is inherently consistent and perform precise and repeatable factory setups. This is never going to happen with a wooden instrument, and carbon fiber doesn't seem to be high on the list of materials most people want their next bass built out of. As much as I like ordering toys online, choosing from an almost limitless selection, and paying super-competitive prices I think that variation between wooden instruments is something we all have to swallow - either try before you buy or be willing to ship it back.

I see your point, and I'm certainly not trying to be antagonistic, but even if two wooden instruments are built to tight specs and given an excellent factory setup chances are they will feel widely disparate by the time they reach the showroom floor. I think we all notice this the most with Fenders simply because, at least in my neck of the woods, they are the only brand that the local stores carry in large enough quantities for true subjective analysis.
 
#5
I dunno - maybe you guys have worse luck in the US, or maybe my local dealer is really lucky at buying Fenders, but I have never played a bad one in the store, and when I bought my NAS P, it was still in the sealed cardboard box, with a 99% perfect set up right out of the box. By the way, I live on the east coast of Canada, and it was March when I bought it, so in the three weeks previous it would have traveled across quite a variety of climate before arriving at our fog-drenched, ice encrusted coast. Not being defensive about Fenders, just telling it like I've seen it here. Maybe your dealer's purchasing person gets cranky and bossy with vendors too often.
 
#6
Laredo said:
. . I just found it hard to purchase a Fender "sight unseen" through an on-line store, because it was "hit or miss". . . I have seen lots of posts about the improved quality control, but I suppose it is still a "work in progress":D................
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Fender is still a business first, and an instrument manufacturer second. And that won't change.

I'm raving about my new 2008 MIA: it is the best Fender I've had, but I still feel that I got lucky and got a "good" one.

At least they are doing an effort, and they got my money because of it.
 
#7
I've only played two of the new American Standards, a Precision and a Jazz a week apart.

I knew after I played that P that it was what one would call a "good" Fender and I guess it spoke to me in the store. Enough so that I had to buy it right then and there, and I've never done that. A week later I was back and I played the J, and goddamnit I wish I had enough money for that one too...
 
#8
4Mal said:
I think it is unrealistic to expect that the factory setup will
1. be right for everyone and
2. that it won't aclimatize ...

Lastly - you think basses are tough ? Try it with acoustic guitars ... talk about variability
Click to expand...

I understand the set-up part..............I always re-string and set-up my new guitars and basses when they arrive. I do not even expect the factory set-up to be close! I am talking about physical differences that can be easily spotted. Neck, Frets, Body, and Tone (heard).............

I can also identify with the acoustic thing.............I have two Martins (same model) that came set-up completely different............;)
 
#9
Laredo said:
I while traveling on business recently, I stopped by several music stores, some were GC:scowl:...............I have enough Fender wood on my collection to build a boat, so I am not "picking" on them, but the new stuff that I saw was not that much better than the old.:rollno: I am not refering to the new features, or improved case, but the variances between guitars. I used to joke about how you could go into a large music store and play a dozen MIA basses (P or J) of the same type, and typically find two that you like:)! It always seemed like some had fret issues, or string alignment probems. Weight varied, neck "playability" was different, and so on...............Not to mention that some just sounded better (to me)! I just found it hard to purchase a Fender "sight unseen" through an on-line store, because it was "hit or miss". I really do not think it is that much different for the 2008 MIA Basses, at least from the sampling that I saw:eek:! The reason I am writing this is because I am considering a new P Bass. I don't doubt the 2008 MIA models are better, I just think it is still "buyer beware". I will probably get one that I play and see first hand, rather than an on-line purchase. I have seen lots of posts about the improved quality control, but I suppose it is still a "work in progress":D................
Click to expand...

Little late for April Fool's... lol jk :D

I personally love Fender, but I agree. I never buy without trying first... especially if it's going to be my next "main" bass. (Probably why my collection is so small. lol) You just never know when you're going to get a dud. But that's with every brand. :shrugs:
 
#10
Laredo said:
I used to joke about how you could go into a large music store and play a dozen MIA basses (P or J) of the same type, and typically find two that you like:)! It always seemed like some had fret issues, or string alignment probems. Weight varied, neck "playability" was different, and so on...............Not to mention that some just sounded better (to me)! I just found it hard to purchase a Fender "sight unseen" through an on-line store, because it was "hit or miss".
Click to expand...

Basses are made of wood. No two pieces of wood are the same. Even pieces that are from the same piece are somewhat different.

If you have 2 pieces of wood that are exactly the same- that's unnatural. That's genetically monkeyed with. Trees are going to get different amounts of water, different amounts of minerals, minerals are going to settle more prominently lower in the tree... there's just tons of variables with natural growth wood.

The phrase "one of the good ones" is going to go away. With all the sterilization of individuality that's happening- the Wal-Mart-ing of America...

I prefer a little bit of individuality. It lets a person choose. There are people who like really heavy instruments, there are people who like really light instruments. There's people who like really resonant instruments, there's people that prefer the instrument to be more "dead" and rely on pickups and electronics...
 
#11
Tweaking a bass is part of the game. It's not a damn hammer, it's a musical instrument.

I like Fenders because I think Leo's designs are terrific, not because I believe there is some pixie dust on 'em from the days when they were carving them out with their teeth. :D

If I spend some time setting one up, that's not time lost: it's time learning about its quirks.
 
#12
I played two 08 Fenders yesterday. A new Jazz V and the new 5 string P. Both were winners, but the P was outstanding. The neck was awesome and was around one the best basses I've ever played. I'd love to own one, but it would require that i put a J pup in the bridge. haha.
 
#13
I used to go to over to Mike Tobias's shop when he was in
Los Angeles. I remember once going in and seeing four
Killer B 5's ready for shipping. I played all four. Even though
they were all the same woods, made at the same time, by
the same people, all four basses were different. They all
sounded very similar, but they felt and played differently.
Fender may be notorious for being hit and miss with basses,
but even the high end makers can't guarantee absolute
consistancy from bass to bass. You HAVE to play it. jmho
 
#14
There is but one bass company I will buy cold (unplayed) and that is Peavey. I have never ever been disappointed in them (well sans that modded one), course they were all used.

I am a recent Fender convert. I saw a 95 Special on eBay and fell in love with it. But I was not about to rely on the brand rep so I went to my local music store and played an 08 P an 08 J and then for the heck of it, an 08 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz. I never intended on purchasing anything I touched that day. All I was interested in was the general 'feel' of a Fender (and I had never touched one before that day). I would like to think I have a 'fair' idea how that 95 P Special is going to feel when it comes in, All of the ones at the shop had great setups so it appears that they finally got someone there that knows a bit how to set one up (usually their axes are set up like junk). Well, I ended up going back and putting that Vintage Jazz on layaway. It was just too nice to pass up and I knew there was a chance I'd never find one again that felt that nice (I thought it was nicer then the Fender Jazz for that matter). Never intended on getting a Jazz, but nothing will ever get me off of that one, thats for sure.
 
#16
I've had my 08 MIA Jazz for a week now. I ordered it sight unseen as I'm a lefty. The store brought in a matching righty as well in the same sunburst/torte combo. They look like mirroe images of each other with the seams in the body in the exact same places.

I am really impressed with my lefty. It was set up fairly well, has absolutely perfect fret work, the finish is fantastic and the overall feel of the bass is just so pleasing.

I was very happy in the end as I had been nervous that I would have issues with the bass when it came in.
 

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