Same pattern repeated half a tone lower - good idea in a song? How to make it work?

[datasmog]

Hi there, so i'm a writing a new song for my band (on bass). I've written the chorus part (which kinda outlines a chord progression) and had this idea to instead of playing it twice, play it once in its original form, and right after that play it a half-tone lower. It sounds pretty cool to me, and the keys/chords match up good enough for it to work tonally, but i'm not so sure if its going to really work as a actual song (as in with more instruments)
Will it sound interesting and progressive, or just a little off and confusing? Is it something vocalists (generally speaking) can have problems with? Does this kind of stuff happen often in popular music?
I know my description is pretty vague and there is only so much you can do without actually hearing the part, but I do intend to try it with the band (yes I already know I should "trust my ears" ). So I'm mostly hoping for some general advice (EDIT: meaning information) on that kind of a part (how to make it work, what to look out for) from someone with more song - writing experience and skill. Even if it won't apply here I'm happy to learn. Peace

This might not be exactly what you mean but, go listen to the Four Preps version of Love of The Common People (yes it’s old). Each verse/chorus goes up half a step from the previous one. And it’s easy for the singer (me).
It’s a key change.

 

[MonetBass]

My advice would be to learn some basic theory to help you understand what you are trying to do, musically. No, it doesn't have to 'follow the rules', but at least you'll know why you're doing it.

 

[mambo4]

I've written the chorus part (which kinda outlines a chord progression) and had this idea to instead of playing it twice, play it once in its original form, and right after that play it a half-tone lower.

It sounds like you have a more of a bass line than a song.

A bass line in isolation can outline multiple possible harmonies and melodies.
You could repeat a bass line and have the chords and melody do something different the next time around.
A bass line which repeats a half step lower does not require the chords and melody behave similarly.

So, yeah with the right chords and melody it can sound great.

 

[Wood and Wire]

One modulation?!! Try twenty-two of them! This also might give you an idea of what going up and down keys might sound like.

I hope to God I never have to chart this one.

I seem to remember Rick Beato doing a pretty funny video about that song.

 

[Spupilup]

I think this is a good example of what you’re looking to do. It’s a pop song by XTC from around 1980. The chorus goes a half step down for the final run through and it works beautifully. I don’t see why your idea wouldn’t work. I’d love to hear it when you’re finished.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I think this is a good example of what you’re looking to do. It’s a pop song by XTC from around 1980. The chorus goes a half step down for the final run through and it works beautifully. I don’t see why your idea wouldn’t work. I’d love to hear it when you’re finished.

Considering they were one of my absolute favourite bands, as a kid at the time, and I could name / sing practically every other song on Black Sea, I'm really scratching my head as to why I have absolutely no recollection of ever having heard that song before...

 

[Spupilup]

Considering they were one of my absolute favourite bands, as a kid at the time, and I could name / sing practically every other song on Black Sea, I'm really scratching my head as to why I have absolutely no recollection of ever having heard that song before...

XTC are one of my favorite bands from that period. I must know a couple of dozen Colin Moulding bass lines including this one which deftly changes keys in a way most wouldn’t even notice.

 

[Wood and Wire]

this one which deftly changes keys in a way most wouldn’t even notice.

But it is essentially exactly the same as modulating up; it's just done very knowingly - I suspect they were deliberately acknowledging that trick, by doing the "anti" version.

They had a great sense of humour, and craft.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

My advice would be to learn some basic theory to help you understand what you are trying to do, musically. No, it doesn't have to 'follow the rules', but at least you'll know why you're doing it.

I had a college professor who used to say: "I don't necessarily want you to write perfectly. I want you to know the rules and how and why you're breaking them."

Props!

 

[Tomek Worek]

If my advice to use your ears is garbage, I guess you probably don't even need help. Just do it, if it sounds bad, stop doing it. Repeat until sounds good. Easy. I'll take my garbage advice elsewhere though.

Maybe in a vacuum its not a bad advice (even if "a little" generic), but in regards to the post i wrote it just comes off lazy and condescending, I mean you even said you couldn't be bothered to read the post lol. I was worried I'd get answers mostly like yours (that's why I specifically wrote in the op that I already know to trust my ears XD), but luckily talkbass didnt disappoint and I got a lot of great and informative answers. Big thanks to everyone who contributed!

OP, the first reply was right on. You can't describe a song and then ask, "Do you think it will sound good?" Music has to be heard. If you want good feedback then post a recording.

Yeah I do know that, but I was mostly hoping to discuss the concept, not to get actual feedback, I think the original post made it pretty clear, if it didnt then that's on me lol

I can hear what you’re trying to do. I’d repeat it UP a half or whole step then come back down. It’ll almost feel like a key change… like you gave it to the audience then took it away.

It’s a cool concept that could probably work well on the right song.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about doing it that way, if the original modulation doesnt sound good, thanks for your answer

Sorry if there is no lyric yet, didn't mean to offend...that would make my comment 1/2 garbage. In the bin with it where most ideas go

Nah man, it was great advice, there is no lyric yet, but I'll definitely keep in mind what you said while writing it

classic Motown trick ! but they do it as a break

That actually pretty great, I'll definitely look into that, but if you have any specific songs you could name that would be terrific

 

[Spupilup]

But it is essentially exactly the same as modulating up; it's just done very knowingly - I suspect they were deliberately acknowledging that trick, by doing the "anti" version.

They had a great sense of humour, and craft.

Think about it. In a song about rockets shooting into the sky and exploding feelings of love, they take the final chorus and, instead of doing the traditional thing, modulating higher, Andy Partridge does the exact opposite and modulates lower.

With regard to the OP, the funny thing is most of the people I know who are familiar with that song, never even noticed the change or felt something was different but couldn’t immediately put their finger on what had happened. A half step is a very subtle but nonetheless effective way to emotionally impact the song.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

XTC are one of my favorite bands from that period. I must know a couple of dozen Colin Moulding bass lines including this one which deftly changes keys in a way most wouldn’t even notice.

XTC is a very interesting band!

I'm fascinated with their (less visible) modulation a half step down - from F major to E major.
Why does it sound so "less visible", kind of nebulous?
Here is my (only) opinion.
Before that modulation, XTC incorporates/plays a borrowed Ab chord (from F minor) and moves to C major,
as some well-known (very popular/widespread) cadence template (a variation of it) of Ab - (Bb) - C = ♭VI–♭VII–I (where C feels like the tonic chord.)
It's like some obfuscated modulation has occurred already; therefore, after some "confusing" harmonic movements, that new tonic E (after B7) sounds like, "Hey, we modulated up from C to E."
A very cool composition device.