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Saunders

Hi. Just joined TalkBass. I know a bunch about this bass.

John Saunders and I were friends and classmates at Cal Poly University, Pomona CA, in the late 70's & early 80's. I lost track of John after we both graduated and I moved away in '81.

John had a house in Upland CA, where he converted his garage into a workshop to make those guitars. He was also friends with the maker of Charvels and other electric guitar and bass makers in the Los Angeles area. When I went over to visit, he would tell me what they were telling him to try. He experimented quite a bit with different materials for the body and neck. I remember the body style of the yellow guitar pictured above -- those would have been made from '79-'81. I do not remember the body style of the white guitar pictured above -- could have been made after June '81.

John also experimented with different coatings -- his garage workshop included his own paint booth. John was a stickler for quality.

We were both EE students. So he also designed/experimented with the electronics, pickups. He would adjust the circuit's audio based on which pickup he was using in that batch of guitars. Integrated circuit (chip) op-amps were becoming popular in electronics about that time. They required a bipolar (+V and -V) power supply back then. So that would explain the two 9V batteries -- one for +V and one for -V.

I was playing a little Fender MusicMaster at the time. John helped me build my own bass amplifier and speaker cabinet. He was a good friend and passionate about basses and music.

He offered to sell one of his basses to me but I couldn't afford it at the time. I kick myself for that now! If anyone has a lead on one of his basses for sale now, I'd appreciate that.
 
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Hi. Just joined TalkBass. I know a bunch about this bass.

John Saunders and I were friends and classmates at Cal Poly University, Pomona CA, in the late 70's & early 80's. I lost track of John after we both graduated and I moved away in '81.

John had a house in Upland CA, where he converted his garage into a workshop to make those guitars. He was also friends with the maker of Charvels and other electric guitar and bass makers in the Los Angeles area. When I went over to visit, he would tell me what they were telling him to try. He experimented quite a bit with different materials for the body and neck. I remember the body style of the yellow guitar pictured above -- those would have been made from '79-'81. I do not remember the body style of the white guitar pictured above -- could have been made after June '81.

John also experimented with different coatings -- his garage workshop included his own paint booth. John was a stickler for quality.

We were both EE students. So he also designed/experimented with the electronics, pickups. He would adjust the circuit's audio based on which pickup he was using in that batch of guitars. Integrated circuit (chip) op-amps were becoming popular in electronics about that time. They required a bipolar (+V and -V) power supply back then. So that would explain the two 9V batteries -- one for +V and one for -V.

I was playing a little Fender MusicMaster at the time. John helped me build my own bass amplifier and speaker cabinet. He was a good friend and passionate about basses and music.

He offered to sell one of his basses to me but I couldn't afford it at the time. I kick myself for that now! If anyone has a lead on one of his basses for sale now, I'd appreciate that.

Thank you for the background on John Mark, and welcome to tb! :thumbsup: The white T-bird body is an Epi that I mounted his neck on. I saw the NOS neck on eBay years ago and bought it. Later I saw another like it (on eBay) but was outbid. Never seen a whole bass other than the yellow one that @frostforests posted. I've played my Saundersbird live and recorded with it - love the neck. Ever since then I was curious about its origin and at one point someone told me he had the newly initiated FCS make the necks for him. I don't know if that's true, but the quality is there so I guess it's possible and maybe Fender took such commissions to get the shop going then. Maybe you have some insight there. Back then I searched on line and found a reference that disclosed him having two basses; the Concord I & II, which I assume the yellow one is one of. (I?) I know of Charvel and the role they played with early aftermarket parts etc, as well as their retro-style guitars & basses. It was a heady time for basses - I always consider the '80s as being the decade of bass, as it played a prominate role in new-wave etc. It was also the advent of active electronics and 5-6 string basses.
 
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Ever since then I was curious about its origin and at one point someone told me he had the newly initiated FCS make the necks for him. I don't know if that's true, but the quality is there so I guess it's possible and maybe Fender took such commissions to get the shop going then. Maybe you have some insight there. Back then I searched on line and found a reference that disclosed him having two basses; the Concord I & II, which I assume the yellow one is one of. (I?)

I know John made the bodies and electronics. And the head of the neck was his unique design. But I cannot remember if the necks were made by FCS. I know he chose and mounted the tuning hardware.

When I knew him, he only had that one body style. I don't remember his calling it Concord, but he may have. Of course, it would not have been I & II until he decided to create the II. So yes, the best guess is that the yellow bass would be a I.

BTW, John was a big guy. Over 6', lean and muscular. Big hands. And his basses were made with that in mind. Whenever I was over and we were playing, he always played either standing free or standing and leaning against his bed or against the back of his sofa. I never saw him sit, not even on a stool, while playing bass.
 
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I know John made the bodies and electronics. And the head of the neck was his unique design. But I cannot remember if the necks were made by FCS. I know he chose and mounted the tuning hardware.

When I knew him, he only had that one body style. I don't remember his calling it Concord, but he may have. Of course, it would not have been I & II until he decided to create the II. So yes, the best guess is that the yellow bass would be a I.

BTW, John was a big guy. Over 6', lean and muscular. Big hands. And his basses were made with that in mind. Whenever I was over and we were playing, he always played either standing free or standing and leaning against his bed or against the back of his sofa. I never saw him sit, not even on a stool, while playing bass.

Usually I & II referred to a one pu (I) and two pu (II) version of the same bass. In the '80s, a "double P" (2 split-coil pu's) was done by a few makers, but it may have been a P/J which was also initiated then. (and not by Fender initially) Any pics of Big John?
 
Last rooms I saw John was in '81, more than forty years ago. If I remember, I had some cheap, small format film cartridge camera. I wasn't into creating photo album that (nor now). So if I have any pictures, it will be a process of digging through prints from that time. (Not likely to happen any time soon -- but if I do, I'll post them.)

I do not own a bass today. I have an acoustic and a hollow body electric guitar. I found this site because I was interested in finding one of John's basses. It might be a long (and perhaps futile) hunt. Thanks for explanation of I and II. I will keep that in mind as I look for an alternative in the meantime.
 
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Last rooms I saw John was in '81, more than forty years ago. If I remember, I had some cheap, small format film cartridge camera. I wasn't into creating photo album that (nor now). So if I have any pictures, it will be a process of digging through prints from that time. (Not likely to happen any time soon -- but if I do, I'll post them.)

I do not own a bass today. I have an acoustic and a hollow body electric guitar. I found this site because I was interested in finding one of John's basses. It might be a long (and perhaps futile) hunt. Thanks for explanation of I and II. I will keep that in mind as I look for an alternative in the meantime.

There must be one out there somewhere. Talkbass is a good place to post a notice as it's a big net to throw out there. I would also check eBay and Reverb. You can save searches in both and if one comes up you'll be notified. Garage sales, loan shops and craigslist also - you never know. Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
I am wondering if anyone has info on the maker of this odd looking but really well made P-style neck. All I know is he was a boutique builder in the late 80's/early 90's. I got this neck relatively cheap NOS and I'd buy another if I could. Supposedly he did a few complete basses but have never seen an example. If you own one or have pics, please pass them along. THXS
For anyone still interested in this old thread about John Saunders Bass Guitars, When I was 18 years old back in 1982 83, I use to sand the guitar bodies for him in his garage in Upland California. Here is a link to what I know. Invalid Link Removed
 
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For anyone still interested in this old thread about John Saunders Bass Guitars, When I was 18 years old back in 1982 83, I use to sand the guitar bodies for his in his garage in Upland California. Here is a link to what I know. Invalid Link Removed


User name checks out

Screenshot_20240720-221952_kindlephoto-121792074.png




Now, the important thing :

Is the back garden at 351 Orchard Lane still booby-trapped?
 
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User name checks out

View attachment 6986100



Now, the important thing :

Is the back garden at 351 Orchard Lane still booby-trapped?
HaHaHa, I don't know, but he scared me enough back then to make me not want to find out. At that time I was 18 and about 145 pounds. I didn't want to mess with him, he was a big man. It's cool to know that some of his guitars are still out there and sought after and seem to command big money. I am glad I had a little part in it, especially since people mention what a good finish they had on them. I guess I did good prep work.
 
For anyone still interested in this old thread about John Saunders Bass Guitars, When I was 18 years old back in 1982 83, I use to sand the guitar bodies for him in his garage in Upland California. Here is a link to what I know. Invalid Link Removed
Thanks so much Richard :thumbsup: - this is what makes the internet worth dealing with. (as in; positive connections) Love your back-story, it opens up so much about the real people working in our world coming from all avenues. Interesting your insights about never seeing necks. Somewhere along the way in my search for information, I was informed that John farmed out the necks to the newly formed FCS in the late '80s. ('86) The Saunders NOS P-neck I bought years ago on eBay for about $65 was top notch, so I would tend to believe that story.

My Saundersbird - I used it for a outdoor gig recently...,

1721515021412.jpeg


As you saw on page one - @frostforests owns a Saunders Concord bass, maybe one you sanded! :)

1721515175580.jpeg
 
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Thanks so much Richard :thumbsup: - this is what makes the internet worth dealing with. (as in; positive connections) Love your back-story, it opens up so much about the real people working in our world coming from all avenues. Interesting your insights about never seeing necks. Somewhere along the way in my search for information, I was informed that John farmed out the necks to the newly formed FCS in the late '80s. ('86) The Saunders NOS P-neck I bought years ago on eBay for about $65 was top notch, so I would tend to believe that story.

My Saundersbird - I used it for a outdoor gig recently...,

View attachment 6986170

As you saw on page one - @frostforests owns a Saunders Concord bass, maybe one you sanded! :)

View attachment 6986172
Yes the web is a cool place. The blurb I wrote about him on HarmonyCentral 10 years back was pretty much everything I remember about him from back then. One day no one will remember any of us hu? Anyhow, you play bass, do you have a band or a band link I can check out?
 
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Yes the web is a cool place. The blurb I wrote about him on HarmonyCentral 10 years back was pretty much everything I remember about him from back then. One day no one will remember any of us hu? Anyhow, you play bass, do you have a band or a band link I can check out?
Well yes, good and unfortunately bad as well. I remember Harmony Central! (for me pre-tb) Here's my bands recent 16 song release - streaming on all the services, but on YouTube for free ...

- enjoy! :thumbsup:
 
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Yes the web is a cool place. The blurb I wrote about him on HarmonyCentral 10 years back was pretty much everything I remember about him from back then. One day no one will remember any of us hu? Anyhow, you play bass, do you have a band or a band link I can check out?
Hi Richard,
I just got back online here at TalkBass and caught up with this thread. Thanks for you recollections of John. The times I would visit him, he was always alone -- i.e. no one else at the house -- but he did talk about people he knew. I don't remember him mentioning you specifically, but he also may never have mentioned me to you. Like you, I never got to see him actually working on the body, nor actually painting -- but I think that was because he was very safety conscious -- and also the workspace for those tasks was limited. He did show me his circuit boards and we talked about refinements, which is why I knew a lot about them.

I don't get to Upland itself much, but I have a few friends near there still. So maybe I will drive by his house some time and take a picture to post. (But I'm sure Zillow or Google Maps has those online too.)
Mark
 
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Just for the heck of it, and so those interested don't have to jump to another website I thought I would paste a copy of my original post at HarmonyCentral from back in 2013 right here....

------------------------------------------

Posted August 1, 2013

I see this question/message is kind of old, I hope someone is around to read it still. I may have some info on the Saunders Guitar Builder you are asking about. I hope it is of some use...

This is going to be a kind of story about an almost forgoten part of my life (only because I am getting old and I have had 2 strokes and 1 heart attack thus far).

My name is Richard and I used to live in Upland California back in the 1980's. I don't recall the exact year but I am 100% that it had to be no earlier than1982 and no later than1984 and I was between the ages of 17-19.

I responded to an ad in the local paper for a part time job. The job was working part time for about 7 dollars an hour, which was great for my age and that year, and it was cash. I only worked a few evenings a week, but it was great part time money for me.

The job was working for a man named "John Saunders" he also lived in Upland in a small neighborhood just west of 8th street & Euclid Ave. I don't know the address and I am not 100% sure if I could pick the correct house or street anymore, but it is a possibility. If I ever get that way again. I currently live about 60 miles from Upland.

The job was sanding guitar bodies that John said he made himself. (I specifically wrote "said he made himself" because I never saw john make anything.) Don't get me wrong, I am NOT calling him a liar, he was just very secretive most of the time... Not all the time... haha, but most of the time. There were many times I asked him information about his guitars and he was very firm about never answering any of them. I guess you just had to be there. It was like he was working on a secret government project.

There were times I had asked if I could watch him cut them out, or paint them, or even assemble them, and he would never let me watch anything. I had to show up at a very specific time in the evenings. It was almost never the same time or same days of the week. I would never know when I was working again until I was leaving, then he would tell me when to show up again...

When I would show up, there would be guitar bodies hanging up in his garage ready for me to sand. He was Very Very particular about the sanding process. Some of the time the bodies were raw wood, other times they were painted. I very rarely ever saw a neck, and never saw any of the other hardware. I am guessing it was in the house. I am using the word "sand" loosely. What I mean by sand is... If the bodies were raw wood and rough I actually had to sand them from coarse to fine and have them ready for paint. If they were painted already, I had to use different grades of "scotch brite" pads on them, to get them ready for another coat of paint. All sanding was done by hand, and even at only 17 or so years old, I remember how beautiful and pefectly smooth his paint was. I remember how proud he was to have the "Saunders" name for his guitars.

At the time he seemed like a very strange guy, He would rush me to the garage and then disappear into his house, only coming out to check on my process once in a while. Now that I am older, I still think he was a bit strange, but so am I, and if he ever got rich, then he would be Eccentric right?

I worked with him for only a few months probably on about 20 or so guitars, both Bass and 6 string. John did tell me that he was a Bass player, but I never heard him play. I only worked with him those few months because I had a job opportunity in Colorado with my brother and I moved there.

Just before I moved, there was the one and only time John was open with me, I think it was when I told him I smoke weed. We sat down and smoked a joint and he told me some crazy stories about a trap in his back yard he made with a 2x4 and nails and how he had found it one day, it had been tripped and he said it was covered in blood. He then explained that it was to protect his Pot Plants... Later that week, he gave me a whole plant that had been cut and dried and it filled an entire grocery bag. He never showed me his actual plants or growing area or the trap, but I can promise you (and so can my friends) that I did have a grocery bad full of pot... We smoked it all.... LOL We had so much, we actually would use a small BBQ in the middle of the room, pile it up and let it burn, and then smolder, and everyone in the room would be wasted... I know someone in Upland still remembers those few days... I don't know who though... I don't remember who was there... HAHAHA

This was about 1982 or so, I was about 18, and he looked to be about 40. When he was telling me about the 2x4 trap, he said it was similar to traps he made in the war, so I am guessing Vietnam. I was young, his age could have been anywhere from 35-50. But I never tried goind in his backyard that's for sure!

I only lasted 6 months is Colorado and then I came back to Upland. So I went back to my old day job, and I stopped by John's to see if I could work on Guitars again. He said he had quit building guitars and I remember he was very very excited, even exstatic about some type of electronic device he created that he said was going to make him RICH. He even invited me in to show it to me. I remember not having a clue as to what it was. He tried explaining it to me, but I still didn't get what it was. I don't think it had anything to do with guitars or music.

I remember being confused about how someone so particular about his guitar building could just walk away from it. But that is what he did as far as I know.

I asked him for some more pot, but he didn't give me any... LOL

That was the last time I ever saw or talked to John Saunders.

If you do the math based on my assumption of his age at that time, he could be anywhere between 65 and 80 years old now

I tried to look up any John Saunders with guitars on the web today, I didn't find John, bit I did find a "Paul" Saunders in Canada that builds custom guitars.. His website says he has been making guitars since 1979... Maybe it is him and he moved to Canada... Maybe my memory has faded and his name was Paul, and not John. I really think it was John, but anyways, you can check out this guys site and ask him if he ever lived in Upland California. By the way, this site is almost all acoustic guitars and all the ones I worked on back in the 80's were solid body electric. Sorry, after all these 30 years I don't remember what he looked like enough to tell if this is him or not.

Link Removed UPDATE: I called this guy, it is NOT him.

I hope this information has helped someone in some way to find Saunders Guitars from the early 80's in California. If not, I hope it was at least entertaining.

Final words: Anyone that really wants to find the Saunders that built the custom guitars back in the early 80's in California should have enough info from my post to find him. There are so many websites that you can pay a few bucks and they give you anyones personal history. From my post you can guess his age and address enough to find him on one of those sites. He lived just west of 8th street and Euclid Avenue in the city of Upland California, 91786 in 1982. If I ever drive down to that area again I will drive thru that neighborhood and try to remember the house and get the address, and then I will update this post. Until then, Good Luck

UPDATED......

UPDATED......

I figured out more info searching on the web:

John H. Saunders

351 Orchard Ln

Upland, CA 91786 ?

worked at these places:

Oxford International Proteus Biomed

Advanced Technical Aerojet

DRS Sensors

Technipower Hewlett Packard

Abbott Labs

Ditech Networks

Epri

Glentek

Swr Engineering

Tyco Electronics

Chaffey High School

Tobias Guitars

Aerojet Azusa CA

Aerojet ElectroSystems

Hughes Aircraft

This has to be the guy..... although I doubt he still lives at that address....

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