Screwy teacher or is this normal?

[behemecoytl]

I requested a refund of $52.50, the difference between 187.50 and 135.00 ($45*3hours), and my refund request was denied. He pointed to his policy and said it's clear as day.

He offered me a "pro-bono" hour lesson, but I will continue to pursue a refund. Since I already feel like I paid for 4 lessons, and he's screwing the deal like this, there's too much negativity to take a "pro-bono" (and yet, paid-for) lesson.

I still don't consider this a scam... I did benefit from the 3 lessons, even if they were more focused on very basic theory than I would have liked... since I already knew the major scales and modes, 3rds and arpeggios going into the lesson. I'm going to insist on a refund for the overpayment and move on.

 

[Lichtaffen]

Don't feel too bad. I took a continuing education class at the Rhode Island School of Design (very expensive design college) and the instructor showed up for maybe half the classes. It was the year the Red Sox won the World Series, so every few days I'd get a phone call from her saying that since most people want to watch the game, she was canceling class that night. The classes were supposed to be 3 hours a night, but most ended before the 2 hour mark. **** ain't fair, I feel for you. Teaching is a noble profession, but some abuse that assumption.

My bass teacher charges $45 an hour also, but he refuses to give weekly lessons because he feels that it's a rip off to the student. I was willing to do the weekly thing, but he refused. I see him twice a year and I've learned more from those 2 lessons.

Find an honest teacher.

 

[Jaydin Nathan]

I requested a refund of $52.50, the difference between 187.50 and 135.00 ($45*3hours), and my refund request was denied. He pointed to his policy and said it's clear as day.

He offered me a "pro-bono" hour lesson, but I will continue to pursue a refund. Since I already feel like I paid for 4 lessons, and he's screwing the deal like this, there's too much negativity to take a "pro-bono" (and yet, paid-for) lesson.

I still don't consider this a scam... I did benefit from the 3 lessons, even if they were more focused on very basic theory than I would have liked... since I already knew the major scales and modes, 3rds and arpeggios going into the lesson. I'm going to insist on a refund for the overpayment and move on.

Well done on going to him, although I wouldn't stop pursuing that refund. I would go to him again, and tell him that you paid more than $45 a lesson, and his policy clearly advertises $45 per hour.

His policy may be clear as day, but he is not that good at maths. When he took a years worth of lessons and divided them into 12 equal parts, even though there are not an equal number of lessons in each month.

If he again refuses, take this to the authorities. It is not right that he may be doing this more than once.

 

[thombo]

i studied w/ a standard monthly rate, but he wouldn't charge for days he canceled... it was cool policy because I would occasionally get a month w/ five lessons.

 

[Stumbo]

....tell him that you paid more than $45 a lesson, and his policy clearly advertises $45 per hour.

If he again refuses, take this to the authorities.

+1

Small claim court can handle this if you file just based on principle. It might cost a few bucks to file but it might be worth it.

 

[Febs]

I requested a refund of $52.50, the difference between 187.50 and 135.00 ($45*3hours), and my refund request was denied. He pointed to his policy and said it's clear as day.

What is "clear as day" from his policy is that his rate is $45 per lesson. The rest of the policy is ambiguous at best, considering his misapplication of "pro-rata" and the clear statement of the per-lesson rate. Tell him to Google "contra proferentem."

 

[Nagrom]

I would suggest just moving on with a new teacher who charges by the lesson without any of this tomfoolery.
You can consider the $52 as a free license to discuss your former teachers business practice with any interested parties in the future, as in "I used to study with 'him' however we conflicted on the actual cost of the lessons ..."
Seeing as how your just stating actual facts I believe you would be immune to repercussions.

My teacher charged by the lesson, and usually gave me 50% extra time (or more) and the first lesson was free because I bought a bow from him.
He was very upfront in the instances where his concerts conflicted with lesson times and my missed lessons with reasonable notice where not charged.

And yes I had to learn to read music and practice scales and exercises amongst other things.

 

[JasonLamb]

Having taught for roughly nine years, usually the teachers I see making up really strange lesson policies are the ones who are broke because no one wants to put up with their crap.

 

[robboy]

Having taught for roughly nine years, usually the teachers I see making up really strange lesson policies are the ones who are broke because no one wants to put up with their crap.

+1 I've been teaching both at the university level and privately for 20 years and this sounds like a scam to me. I try to get a month in advance from my students. However, if they tell me ahead of time that they won't be coming on a certain date they don't get charged for that date. I keep students for years because I give them musical instruction that is useful and I don't get greedy. If a teacher has something real to offer to them,(IE teaches them music), students will show up regularly and the teacher won't have to resort to wacky contracts to get paid. Moreover, a teacher student relationship is both intimate and businesslike at the same time and if you are too mercenary it just sours the whole thing. There has to be give and take from both or it's a rocky relationship.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I’d never had any formal bass lessons, so I found a teacher and signed up. The teacher’s payment “contract” says that he charges $45/hour, based on a 50 week per year schedule (with Thanksgiving and Xmas weekends off). I signed up for lessons in November and the teacher calculated my payment to be $187.50, which is $45*50(weeks in a year)/12= $187.50.

Here’s where it becomes tricky. Since $180 would pay for 4 hours ($45*4=$180), I assumed that I had paid for 4 hours of lessons… so I had a lesson the first weekend in November, and again the next week, and my 3rd lesson was the week before Thanksgiving--- 3 total hours… and on my 3rd lesson, I mentioned to my teacher that next weekend was Thanksgiving, and that I’d see him the week after—But No… he said my lessons were done, and that I had only paid for lessons for November (he also says he doesn’t charge by the month), and that payment is based on this weird 50 week schedule. I feel like I should get a $45 refund (or credit toward another month of lessons), since I only got 3 hours…

This seems unfair to me, but this is my first experience with music lessons- is this normal?

I can see what he's doing, and although I don't do this myself (preferring to charge for the lessons per month) I know several teachers that round off like this. January is a 5 week month, so that will be the first month where you get an extra lesson. If your lessons are on weekends you would also get 5 lessons on May, July and October.
Most of the teachers I know that do this sort of policy really DO teach private lessons for a living, rather than mixing private students with University work and live and session playing like I do. I generally require students to give me a 2 week notice if they are going to drop lessons, and require payment on the first of the month rather than charging by the lesson (which I only do in rare cases, i.e. a working pro who wants a tune up, etc.). Remember, your teacher is probably really living off of his student fees-most do. You will eventually get several months where you will have the schedule work in your favor. I would evaluate yourself, your teacher, and the situation and see if you will be his student long enough for this to make sense.
Hope this helps as well as give you some understanding from the teacher's side.

 

[Roy Vogt]

What is "clear as day" from his policy is that his rate is $45 per lesson. The rest of the policy is ambiguous at best, considering his misapplication of "pro-rata" and the clear statement of the per-lesson rate. Tell him to Google "contra proferentem."

The one thing I learned from reading his policy is that I want to go back and make mine even more clear and straightforward.
My wife is a Licensed Massage Therapist and her school gave a great course on Business for the Self-Employed that I've taken some ideas from. She has written a great policy for her practice that really makes the client (and practitioner) responsible as far as scheduling, payment, time and promptness, and other matters that come up from time to time in private lessons.

 

[robboy]

She has written a great policy for her practice that really makes the client (and practitioner) responsible as far as scheduling, payment, time and promptness, and other matters that come up from time to time in private lessons.

Hmmm. I need something like that myself.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Hmmm. I need something like that myself.

I'm rewriting my lesson policy according to her guidelines. I'll post it as a sample here when I'm done.

 

[robboy]

I'm rewriting my lesson policy according to her guidelines. I'll post it as a sample here when I'm done.

That's very generous Roy!

 

[Rocky]

If your located in Southern California near L.A. you can find many high quality teachers that charge by the lesson WITHOUT a contract.

 

[E2daGGurl]

Most people simply charge per the lesson.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Most people simply charge per the lesson.

I used to, and it guaranteed me a constant absentee, "no show-no pay" issue. When I charge per month, everyone (students, parents, and myself) takes the lessons more seriously.
When you are contracting someone like me to help you learn you are buying my time just as much as you are when you contract a recording studio. Can you imagine calling up your doctor and saying, "I'm sorry, I can't make my appointment in 15 minutes"? I guarantee you they will charge you for the missed appointment. Back when I charged by the lesson I had people who did that, people who flat didn't show up, parents who waited until they owed me for 3 lessons before they paid, you name it. Most other private teachers (guitar, piano, drums, whatever) that I know have had the same problem. The solution is a written policy and charging by the month, IMHO.
A lot of teachers (myself included here) have been playing for decades and have multiple degrees from top music schools as well as touring, recording and concert experience. When we teach we do so as professionals. You can certainly find a kid who's been playing a bit longer to show you some licks for a bit less money and a bit less formal situation, but it's like hiring your buddy who "kinda sorta knows someone who saw someone change a transmission" to work on your car. Caveat Emptor....

 

[DudeistMonk]

$45 is high...I pay $45 but the guy teaches me for like 2:30 hours and he has the credentials and groove to charge that much.

Start with half hour lessons with a cheap guy (really the meat and potatoes of a lesson is all done at home anyway, you just need the guy to answer questions and hand you things to go home and play).

Anyone worth their salt can teach you the basics. After you have been playing for a few years then go pay the pro $45 bucks an hour.


..and yeah that guy ripped you off, tell him to stop being a jerk and give your final hour or refund the money...If he doesn't then post all his info on TB and kill his rep.

 

[southernrocker]

45 bucks an hour? Man, that seems way to high! He must really have to be something!

 

[Roy Vogt]

$45 is high...I pay $45 but the guy teaches me for like 2:30 hours and he has the credentials and groove to charge that much.

Start with half hour lessons with a cheap guy (really the meat and potatoes of a lesson is all done at home anyway, you just need the guy to answer questions and hand you things to go home and play).

Anyone worth their salt can teach you the basics. After you have been playing for a few years then go pay the pro $45 bucks an hour.


..and yeah that guy ripped you off, tell him to stop being a jerk and give your final hour or refund the money...If he doesn't then post all his info on TB and kill his rep.

A good pro is worth it. When a student pays my fee ($60 an hour at this point) they are getting 40 years of playing experience, 3 decades of major recording, television and touring work in Nashville, Dallas, Miami, London, and pretty much worldwide, master class experience with Ray Brown, Billy Sheehan, Stanley Clarke, Anthony Jackson, Victor Wooten, Rufus Reid, Ron McClure and others, a Bachelor's Degree in Music Theory from The University of North Texas and a Master's Degree in Jazz Performance from the University of Miami on Electric Bass.
I disagree with "anyone worth their salt can teach you the basics". I've had to undo countless bad habits from students who don't know the notes on their neck because all their teachers taught were TABs, bizarre fingering strategies and picking strategies that slow players down, you name it I've seen it. Getting a good grasp of the basics from someone who has likely been playing and thinking about music for twice as long as you've been alive is not necessarily a bad thing and may even get you where you need to go quicker. It worked for me when I was taking lessons with Ed Garcia in Dallas and Don Coffman in Miami, that's for sure.
Not sure about slamming someone on TB-Karma, Karma....
FWIW, Bunny Brunel and Bill Dickens charge $100 an hour...