Screwy teacher or is this normal?

[Roy Vogt]

A good pro is worth it. When a student pays my fee ($60 an hour at this point) they are getting 40 years of playing experience, 3 decades of major recording, television and touring work in Nashville, Dallas, Miami, London, and pretty much worldwide, master class experience with Ray Brown, Billy Sheehan, Stanley Clarke, Anthony Jackson, Victor Wooten, Rufus Reid, Ron McClure and others, a Bachelor's Degree in Music Theory from The University of North Texas and a Master's Degree in Jazz Performance from the University of Miami on Electric Bass.
I disagree with "anyone worth their salt can teach you the basics". I've had to undo countless bad habits from students who don't know the notes on their neck because all their teachers taught were TABs, bizarre fingering strategies and picking strategies that slow players down, you name it I've seen it. Getting a good grasp of the basics from someone who has likely been playing and thinking about music for twice as long as you've been alive is not necessarily a bad thing and may even get you where you need to go quicker. It worked for me when I was taking lessons with Ed Garcia in Dallas and Don Coffman in Miami, that's for sure.
Not sure about slamming someone on TB-Karma, Karma....
FWIW, Bunny Brunel and Bill Dickens charge $100 an hour...

In my experience, a beginning student typically needs a 30 minute lesson. Hour lessons seem to work better with more advanced students or pro players. When teaching a pro player (or for that matter taking a lesson myself) I look at the lesson in the same way I might studying with a tennis or golf pro-a tune up of skills. Most of the time these students don't need a weekly lesson-once a month or every couple of months gets it in this case.
When you consider that a weekly lesson of an hour can cost as much as a car payment for the entire month and a beginner needs more attention and reinforcement of habits and knowledge the half hour lesson starts to make a lot more sense and is certainly more affordable, IMO.

 

[DudeistMonk]

I disagree with "anyone worth their salt can teach you the basics". I've had to undo countless bad habits from students who don't know the notes on their neck because all their teachers taught were TABs, bizarre fingering strategies and picking strategies that slow players down, you name it I've seen it. Getting a good grasp of the basics from someone who has likely been playing and thinking about music for twice as long as you've been alive is not necessarily a bad thing and may even get you where you need to go quicker.

The disagreement there is in our definition of "worth their salt" If you don't know how to read, your chords, scales and fingering techniques than as an instructor you aren't "worth your salt" IMO.

I'm no great player, I'd call myself intermediate just starting to come into my own and I'd have no business charging anyone 45/hr for anything, but I have no doubt that I can teach a beginner proper technique and musical foundations.

It can't hurt going with the pro if you have the money though.

 

[Roy Vogt]

The disagreement there is in our definition of "worth their salt" If you don't know how to read, your chords, scales and fingering techniques than as an instructor you aren't "worth your salt" IMO.

I'm no great player, I'd call myself intermediate just starting to come into my own and I'd have no business charging anyone 45/hr for anything, but I have no doubt that I can teach a beginner proper technique and musical foundations.

It can't hurt going with the pro if you have the money though.

+1 I just didn't get your definition. Now that I understand better, we're in agreement.

 

[richmoore1998]

There's nothing wrong with signing a policy. At the school you pay for x number of lessons, in advance for the semester. If the school has a function or I cancel, you are prorated the next semester or get an extra lesson the next semester. At the studio you sign up for lessons by the month, and are not put on the schedule til paid. It is a subcontracted situation, the student pays the studio and the teachers are paid by the studio. Quite often students are put on the shedule before ever paying and they never show up. What is usually called a contract is simply an understanding of policy.

If I give a lesson at a students home, it is usually after the lesson each time, some students however prefer to pay by the month.

I think if we polled 100% of bass teachers (those that teach privately and not as part of a college or University program) in North America, the overwhelming majority would conclude that a contract would be far from the norm. Unless that teacher runs a particular program AND is of notable stature and accomplishment....

 

[Sathington W.]

screwy

 

[Roy Vogt]

I think if we polled 100% of bass teachers (those that teach privately and not as part of a college or University program) in North America, the overwhelming majority would conclude that a contract would be far from the norm. Unless that teacher runs a particular program AND is of notable stature and accomplishment....

What some would call a contract is what I call a lesson policy. I am rewriting my lesson policy and giving it to my students in January. I don't feel the need to have them sign it, but it creates an understanding between the two parties that I think does no harm to the relationship.

 

[afromoose]

This makes me feel so much better about my payment policy. I charge a retainer for missed slots regardless of the reason for missing it, but I have terms, so there is plenty of opportunity to go on holiday or have time off. Surely this guy needs breaks every so often?

 

[richmoore1998]

What some would call a contract is what I call a lesson policy. I am rewriting my lesson policy and giving it to my students in January. I don't feel the need to have them sign it, but it creates an understanding between the two parties that I think does no harm to the relationship.

Having a detailed outline of what is expected of a student and having them commit to such an agreement as what was originally posted is like comparing apples and oranges. I think it's great what you're doing - it will empower students and yourself to create a higher standard of learning... Good on you for putting the bug in their ear to make them consider what you expect.

 

[Crazyeelboy]

Back to the OP - I say drop the teacher now even if you don't get your money back or don't get all your lessons. His payment policies have obviously raised enough doubt in your mind that you wrote about it here looking for advice and you'll probably never get over the feeling that he is trying to squeeze you at every turn. Find another teacher.

 

[LightGroove]

File a claim with paypal/your CC as services not rendered. They will open a dispute claim and investigate and you can give it up to due process. I say he owes you a lesson or money as you didnt sign anything. He can say all he wants but you did not agree to pay him vacation, you agreed to pay for 4 lessons. I understand if you signed a yearly contract but you did not. This in essence voids his 50/52 thought process.

There are other routes like complaints to the BBB . I'm not saying trash the guy but at the same time he's taking advantage of you.

 

[NickInMesa]

I never paid in advance. Always paid at the end of the lesson, and that's about it.

Once I paid $40 instead of $25 because it lasted 90 minutes and the teacher appreciated the gesture.

I would never pay in advance or sign a contract. I'd walk out.

 

[Jon Moody]

All of my teachers always had me pay a lesson in advance. The simple rationale was that they had your time alloted for you, and even if you cancel, they're out of that time.

When I taught lessons at a music store, their policy was much more strict. You paid for a month of lessons up front, and were able to reschedule ONE lesson a month, provided you gave at least 24 hours of notice, without penalty. After that, you could reschedule but it was at the instructors' discretion.

My thought with the instructor is that, while I agree with his method of wanting payment a month at a time, I don't like his math, or reasoning of the actual charge. If you are there weekly, charge accordingly for the month, period. It's already been mentioned that in a 52 week year, some months will have FIVE lessons. Charge five lesson fees for that month, four for the months with that, and consider November and December "light" months (since he doesn't give lessons during Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks).

At the moment, you're getting charged more for the lessons, and the only way you're going to be only paying $45 a lesson is by staying with the teacher the entire 50 week time. Technically, you're paying around $47 a lesson at this point which isn't much more, but it's the principle. Don't offer no contracts and then charge according to a 50 week schedule.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

One teacher that I used to go to charged $50 and hour and you would pay for the next lesson in advance. His schedule was such that you couldn't always have four lessons per month on the same day. One lesson was on a snow day and the roads were terrible. I tried to get there and left with plenty of time, but an accident on the way prevented me from getting there on time. I called him and the very first thing he said to me was, "You've forfeited this lesson, so I'll have to charge you."

That was the last lesson I ever took from him. Save a day, lose a year.

 

[behemecoytl]

the instructor has indicated that he will refund me, which is cool with me. He says that he only takes on long term students and thought I was signing up long term, and I believe we've chalked it up to a miscommunication, since I never wanted long term weekly lessons. his policy doesn't make sense, and since I didn't sign any long-term contract, I thought that I had paid for 4 hours. as long as I get my refund for one hour as promised (no reason to think i shouldn't), then he's being fair.

i'll be more careful in the future.

 

[nsmar4211]

Glad to hear he manned up.
being friends with someone who made their living from lessons, I can tell you it's very frustrating for teachers when students don't show up. That's a slot you could have sold to someone else, or time you could have used to do something else. I can completely understand paying for the month up front!
Methinks his contract needs rewording...

 

[Jon Moody]

I tried to get there and left with plenty of time, but an accident on the way prevented me from getting there on time. I called him and the very first thing he said to me was, "You've forfeited this lesson, so I'll have to charge you."

That was the last lesson I ever took from him. Save a day, lose a year.

being friends with someone who made their living from lessons, I can tell you it's very frustrating for teachers when students don't show up. That's a slot you could have sold to someone else, or time you could have used to do something else.

Right there. Having a student cancel on you is tantamount to being laid off for a brief period of time. Imagine your boss coming to your desk at 8am and saying "Well, I think we're going to let you go, but come back at lunch time and we'll get you back on payroll." That's pretty much what it's like when a student cancels, regardless of the situation (and cybersnyder had a doozy).

 

[champbassist]

the instructor has indicated that he will refund me, which is cool with me. He says that he only takes on long term students and thought I was signing up long term, and I believe we've chalked it up to a miscommunication, since I never wanted long term weekly lessons. his policy doesn't make sense, and since I didn't sign any long-term contract, I thought that I had paid for 4 hours. as long as I get my refund for one hour as promised (no reason to think i shouldn't), then he's being fair.

i'll be more careful in the future.

Congrats!
Did you show him how TB was tearing him up and scare him into submission?

 

[Eric Swaim]

I am a Professional Teacher (String Orchestra) at a local magnet school. I have been teaching private lessons for 19 years. I charge everyone at the beginning of the month. If a holiday comes up, we reschedule for a different day or skip the lesson completely (they are not charged and know it from the beginning of the month). I do not believe in a 50 week schedule, I beleieve in a monthly schedule because not every student will be able to stay or afford lessons for the whole year. I suggest you find another teacher and research to see which teacher has the best results from their teaching. Great players are not always the best teachers, and great teachers are not always the best players. Knowing Pedigogy and performance are usually two different art forms. But it's nice to know when you have a teacher that does both well. Good Luck