Second PF-500 Burnt-Out Last Night.......

[Stealth Fighter]

I have noticed the same, people who have had trouble tend to continuously have trouble while others have zero problems. I've had my PF-500 about 2 years now, it's mainly used for practices and carried around as backup, but it's been solid no matter what I throw at it.



They did, a long time ago actually. The AmpegUSA TB user (someone at ampeg, not sure who) posts from time to time and did comment on their issues with the PF series amps. I think they said the failure rate was only around 3-5%. It was in one of the PF amp megathreads. IIRC they said there was no common component issue that they were yet aware of, but this was also still fairly early. Keep in mind, people with working amps generally don't take to forums en masse to defend the product/brand since they're supposed to work without problems so people with issues tend to be over represented. The PF amps were also supposedly the number one selling bass amp on the market for a while so there is a large number of customers that might be upset or report problems.

Thanks for the update Corey. I've been away from TB for several months, so I might have missed it. Do you have a link or hint as to where to look?

Based on my experience working in the electronics industry, 3% failure rate for a new product isn't terrible, but it could be much better. Still, for the most part, I agree with your post.

 

[jeff7bass]

I have an Ampeg PF-350 and it served me well as a rehearsal/small gig head. I know it's limitations though and don't push it too hard. No need to.

 

[Hopkins]

Threads like this make me appreciate my "heavy" old GK 700rbII and Eden E300T tube amp. I think I will put up with a few extra pounds and stay away from the class D stuff.

 

[TinIndian]

Threads like this make me appreciate my "heavy" old GK 700rbII and Eden E300T tube amp. I think I will put up with a few extra pounds and stay away from the class D stuff.

Not for nothing, but I have had zero issues with my Genz Benz Streamliner 900. I've been gigging it steadily for a year and even after a couple of tumbles in the carry bag it has not given me any trouble. So I don't think I'd be so quick to write off all class D heads.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Thanks for the update Corey. I've been away from TB for several months, so I might have missed it. Do you have a link or hint as to where to look?

Honestly I tried finding it again a while back after the first time I saw it and gave up after looking for about 20 minutes. I started by going through AmpegUSA's post history, but even then it was buried fairly deep.

Edit - looking back through the post history it might not have been the AmpegUSA user but someone else within the PF amps threads. For some reason I had thought it was direct info, but it may have been even more indirect info than I remembered. If I can find the post again I'll link it.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Honestly I tried finding it again a while back after the first time I saw it and gave up after looking for about 20 minutes. I started by going through AmpegUSA's post history, but even then it was buried fairly deep.

Edit - looking back through the post history it might not have been the AmpegUSA user but someone else within the PF amps threads. For some reason I had thought it was direct info, but it may have been even more indirect info than I remembered. If I can find the post again I'll link it.

Thanks again for the respons. I'll search as well, so don't spend too much time looking for it. I'll post a link as well, if I find it.

 

[arai]

Honestly I tried finding it again a while back after the first time I saw it and gave up after looking for about 20 minutes. I started by going through AmpegUSA's post history, but even then it was buried fairly deep.

Edit - looking back through the post history it might not have been the AmpegUSA user but someone else within the PF amps threads. For some reason I had thought it was direct info, but it may have been even more indirect info than I remembered. If I can find the post again I'll link it.

I don't remember an ampeg spokesman saying that and if they did I think it would be brought up a bit more.
Ampeg seem to be burying their heads in the sand over this one. Disgusting

 

[harrll]

I have been playing a PF 500 through the PF115 and PF210 cabs and it hasn't missed a beat. The only thing I might throw in is that it doesn't have a lot of headroom. I am considering an upgrade to something that will give me a pit more "push. But in the right application you just can't go past these. Tone, portability, looks.. its got it all.
Some of the issues that some members may be having might be that they are expecting a bit much, and running these at high levels continuously may bring them undone.
I'll more than likely stay with Ampeg into the next unit.
They've got the runs on the board.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I don't remember an ampeg spokesman saying that and if they did I think it would be brought up a bit more.
Ampeg seem to be burying their heads in the sand over this one. Disgusting

They seem to be doing what they can. They were actually pretty heavily involved with the issues FenderHutz was having with his MicroVR (similar problems as the PF heads IIRC) even going so far as to do mods to his head and send it back and forth for him to test out until they figured out the trouble. If you read through the PF threads they've been pretty on top of replacing heads that are having the "cutting out" issue - or in other words heads that are otherwise fully functional but hit their limiters earlier than they should. I'd say that's pretty flexible in terms of CS. If you read through the AmpegUSA user's post history you can see they were at least following the PF threads though certainly keeping commentary on the failure issue light.

Anyways, I found the following quote in this thread, as and I had said, it appears to be a bit more second hand info than I had though, but Dick is a frequent poster and I doubt he'd make up the number out of thin air.

Furthering that thought, when I asked Ampeg CS rep about failures of the PF heads he told me it was less than 2% of sales.

Hate on them all you want, and I'm sure that it's different when it's your amp that fails, but that doesn't mean they're hiding from the issue.

 

[arai]

Chinese whispers. Like the whole "a rep told me Gens Benz is closing shop" drama

 

[Stealth Fighter]

From my 40+ years experience in manufacturing, I would say that 2% failure rate in a mature product line is very good. Two percent failure rate in a new product using fairly new technology is close to phenomenal. Of course, I guess if you are predisposed to discount any Ampeg friendly posts, the point is moot.

 

[arai]

The post saying 2% wasn't from ampeg, moot

 

[Stealth Fighter]

The post saying 2% wasn't from ampeg, moot

Then, obviously, you admit to being predisposed to disagree with any opinion with which you do not agree. No?

 

[arai]

Then, obviously, you admit to being predisposed to disagree with any opinion with which you do not agree. No?

That is not the point.
If some guy on the internet come out and says some rep told him something, that something may or may not be true. To then be a 3rd person saying that ampeg said it is just starting rumors. I am not going to believe a word of it until the said company comes out and says that.
I wont be holding my breath

 

[Dave W]

Then, obviously, you admit to being predisposed to disagree with any opinion with which you do not agree. No?

Failure rate percentages are not an opinion. If those numbers don't come directly from the manufacturer they are meaningless.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Failure rate percentages are not an opinion. If those numbers don't come directly from the manufacturer they are meaningless.

The same could be said about reported failures on TB. Any or all of them could be bogus claims. Why do you trust the failure reports and not another TB member's reliability reports?

 

[Dave W]

The same could be said about reported failures on TB. Any or all of them could be bogus claims. Why do you trust the failure reports and not another TB member's reliability reports?

I never said I did However, it's not the same thing at all.

I'm not particularly interested in bringing down OP's thread to this level any more. He reported a failure (his second) said says they won't get a chance to give him a 3rd. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty reasonable to me. There is no way that I would continue to try a rely on something that has basically proven itself to be unreliable directly to me. Especially when there could be money and personal reputation involved. I take my job as a bassist pretty seriously in that regard. That goes for anything in life, not just these amps.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Do search on how many PF's have went down, and then do the same on the whole line of GK.

Fair enough. I guess I just misread your comment. My bad.

 

[B-string]

I am concerned I recommended a PF500 to someone, but not enough to really change my mind. I still think it was a good fit for them.

 

[jumblemind]

I have noticed the same, people who have had trouble tend to continuously have trouble while others have zero problems.

You seem to suggest user error here, which has been Ampeg's stated opinion, too, unfortunately. I had both a 500 and 350 crap out. The 500 burned up in the store as an employee was setting it up; the 350 did the low note cutout thing while practicing at home through a single pf210 cab (vol and gain at 2 o'clock). User error simply can't be the main issue.

Keep in mind, people with working amps generally don't take to forums en masse to defend the product/brand since they're supposed to work without problems so people with issues tend to be over represented. The PF amps were also supposedly the number one selling bass amp on the market for a while so there is a large number of customers that might be upset or report problems.

Kind of disagree. Lots of people here brag about their amps. See all of the "club" type threads, or even threads like this where people chime in with their own amp's reliabilty. If they really did sell like crazy, there might be something to that part. But The PF series problems go well beyond the over-represented complainers notion.

FWIW I'm a huge Ampeg fan and am trying to talk myself out of giving the pf800 a go.