Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

[Ellery]

I’m laughing as I write this because I used to be the co-moderator of this forum years ago and I may be breaking several of my rules for posting.

I haven’t followed recent events with the new ultra small ultralight ultra portable class D amplifier heads that have become quite popular lately. I’ve only been peripherally aware of them. However, I am interested in getting one for practices and smaller gigs. I’ve got no intention of replacing my main rig and I’m quite aware that it’s unfair to compare them directly against one another.

The portable head that it has to beat is an old SWR electric blue had which is 14” x 14” x 5” and tips the scale at 14 pounds. The rated wattage of that unit is 150 into four and 120 into eight.

A disclaimer about wattage: I’ve been around long enough and done enough A/B comparisons to know that there is the wattage that the manufacturer claims for their amplifier, and then there is what you actually experience. I’m less interested in what the amplifier says on the package, I’m a lot more interested in what you have actually experienced. Especially if you have put two or three or more of these little heads up against one another and found out which ones are actually louder than the others. I won’t bore you with the war stories but I have certainly seen “standard” amplifiers blow other “standard” amplifiers out of the water that were rated at four times the wattage. (I’m not going to mention that these might have been the old Trace Elliot amplifiers and the Aguilar DB 750). If one amp is significantly louder than another, let me know.

Tone itself is of course subjective. However I would be interested in your thoughts here as well, especially if you have had the opportunity to do direct comparisons.

otherwise, portability is certainly a factor, otherwise I would not be writing this. It seems like they are all the same ballpark in terms of weight being somewhere around 3 to 5 pounds give or take. I’m a little more interested in actual outside dimensions and if they fit in something like a gig bag. Being able to carry a gig bag and a small cabinet and be done with it is kind of a holy Grail.

in the future I might inquire about how the small and light cabinet scene is these days. I’m not about to give up my bag and cabinets, and anybody who has been around a long time those that I was quite a champion for them. However, despite being compact they are on the heavy side. I do miss my GS 112 but I know that there are quite a few cabinets that have popped up in the last 10 years or so.

Anyhow, let me know your experiences. How they stacked up to one another in terms of volume and tone. How well you’re able to fit it in a gig bag or something like that. If you experienced problems, what were they? If you picked one over the others after doing comparisons, why?

Just to be clear, if you have opinions without experience I’m really not interested in that. And comments that little class the amplifiers are no good or will never be as good as regular class A or class B amplifiers are exactly helpful either. Remember, I’m not looking to replace anything, just for another option. Edit: “class D amps are great” without letting me know which one you like and why isn’t super helpful either.

thanks a lot in advance ~ Ivan

I was myself concerned about the performance of class D amps due to the many stalwart rants I had observed. But I grabbed this Genz Benz Shuttle for practice/ rehearsal and it's tone and power blew my expectations out of the water! It is the weight of a feather and fits into a little gig bag. I could even see using this on stage. Pictured is my usual setup but when I hooked this up to my 6x10 it roared!

 

[Guitalia]

I've used a small Carvin 1x10" combo, two Ampeg heads (PF-500 and PF-800), and a Peavey Headliner head.

The Carvin combo, sitting on a Rocktron 1x12" extension cab, was my main setup for gigging in small rooms. Having the upper speaker close to ear level meant that I could always hear myself very well. No complaints about that setup.

For some reason, I never really bonded with the Ampeg heads. They seem to work well for other players, though.

The Peavey Headliner head suited me perfectly. According to a Peavey designer who used to contribute to Talk Bass years ago, the Headliner series is designed to emulate tube heads by rolling off the low end subtly, thus providing punchier, low-mid-range-centered tone and higher perceived volume. The bass can be boosted if desired, but I found that the Headliner response curve worked well in the mix as is.

 

[brocket]

TC Electronics BH250. Fits in a small backpack with all associated cords, but a decent enough heft to not feel delicate. I know TC gets a bad rap for false wattages and all that... this thing gets way louder than I need! I regularly play without PA support using a 2x8 and 1x12, and I might turn up halfway. I've had zero reliability issues after 30 plus gigs with it. Tone is meh. I haven't heard the tone of the amp since the first time I used a Tech 21 VT flavored pedal with it. I like the thick/vintage type tone, and it could be that TC was going for more modern/transparent. The TonePrint knob is kinda gimmicky- I'd probably prefer something like the newer BQ250 with gain and compressor knobs instead (but that also drops the tuner and mute switch, so maybe not). I don't have much experience with other bass heads, but I don't feel like this head is missing anything beacuse it's Class D. Based on price, size, and reliability, I am entirely satisfied with it.

 

[Al Kraft]

I've gone through a few 800 watt Class D heads and they just simply lack (IMHO of course) the chest thumping thickness that my older heads seem to have had in spades. They sound fine and the features work as described but there's just something missing.
I have the MESA WD800 and it pairs really well with the SUBWAY 2x12. As I continue to experiment I recently
(just prior to COVID - 19) acquired a BERGANTINO HP Forte which is 1200 watts. I have not been able to road test this since there are no shows.
I'm still on the fence with Class D..maybe the additional power with the Forte HP will get me what I'm looking for.

Just my experience, but I'd say that if 800 Watts into the 212 cabs I'm familiar with doesn't get you some serious oomph, you may have the wrong cab for your tone goals. 1200 Watts into most 212's would add something spectacular, but my guess is that it would be short-lived and require the immediate use of a backup cab.

The Berg Fortes (any version) are spectacular heads and I'm also a big Mesa WD fan. The WD with some added bass EQ and set to low damping should with just a touch of HPF (to trim out sub lows) should get you a thunderous low end punch IME.

 

[JimmyM]

I'll never give up tube amps for micros entirely, but while I hear what people like about trad SS and still think there's a sonic difference between the 3 types of formats that's topology related, I think I sound quite good using my micros and they've always been dependable.

 

[Stewie]

At the other end of the spectrum: I bought a used Ampeg PF350. I run it through a pair of SVT15Es. I'd like it better if it had a four knob EQ like a GK800RB, but it sounds good for both upright(magnetic pickup) and Fender basses. I've never come close to turning it up all the way to distortion. For short money, it's a great amplifier. I'm thinking of getting another as a backup when gigging comes back (unless I can come up with the scratch for a Subway 800+)

 

[BluesWalker]

I used a Mark Bass LMII and then a LMIII for several years. They were both very dependable, it was not necessary for me to upgrade to the LMIII there was no difference between except for a few features; when possible, I kept the LMII at a band practice space, and kept the LMIII at home for practice and use at gigs. They are lightweight, easy to transport. I housed them in amp case purchased from Mark Bass; neither amp ever left the case. I coupled them with MB 2x10 and 1x15 cabinets, either alone or in combo depending on the venue.

I was able to dial in the tones I liked with them. I basically played in blues rock, classical rock and a prog band. My basses were generally active though I sometimes played passive basses; for example: Fender Roscoe Beck 5, Status Streamline 5-string and Stealth 6-string, Ibanez Gary Willis fretless. The setup had no difficulty articulating the low B string notes. The MB amp/cabinet combos tend to accentuate the upper mids but that can be easily adjusted with the amp equalization knobs and the active bass settings.

Overall, if I get back into playing again, I will go back to MB.

 

[Al Kraft]

I'll never give up tube amps for micros entirely, but while I hear what people like about trad SS and still think there's a sonic difference between the 3 types of formats that's topology related, I think I sound quite good using my micros and they've always been dependable.

I would agree that there are some typical/usual artifacts that seem common to or even attributable to certain topologies. However, depending on the voicing/tone/playing-feel goals and skill of the engineer/designer I think those can be surprisingly minimized in many cases.

To me a good example data point is the Mesa Walkabout and the new Subway WD-800. With the exception of common complaints Andy addressed/fixed in the design and what aspects of the original WA quirks were part of your personal voicing choices for that amp, they can sound and feel remarkably similar. I think the new TT-800 also showcases how a modern take on a classic head can come really close for a lot of people.

One of the playing feel differences (that also makes a difference in tone) for me between SS and tubes has been damping factor. I also feel there is an inherent richness and natural warmth that tubes can more easily offer than a SS design - but I don't discount the possibility that a SS state circuit could get there (Aguilar TH for example). By giving some of of the newer heads some of the tube amp natural artifacts the differences in a mix are becoming less and less noticeable to me.

 

[kesslari]

I've successfully, happily, and tonefully used and gigged Genz Benz (shuttle series, streamliner) and now the Mesa WD800. No issues with reliability. I get a lot of "man, you sound great" comments when I gig. Or at least when I used to back in the days...

 

[velalv]

Really just your total experience: volume, tone, durability, etc.

Ok, so I think I got the loud and tone above. Al Kraft had some good statements above to that mimic my experience. With regard to durability, I ended up getting the Berg because the GK MB 500 ended up crapping out on me. The Tonehammer and the Berg have been bulletproof. I have found Jim Bergantino excellent with support, and the dealers who carry his stuff to be top flight in supporting the product after the fact.

One other thing I should make known. The GK MB 500 and Berg were really good in responding to my drive pedal, which is a Grizzly Bass. When I wanted tube "squish," the Berg transmitted that faithfully, and to a slightly lesser extent, so did the GK. When I run my EQD Sea Machine, they both sounded about the same. When I ran reverb and delay, the Berg responded like a champ. The GK created a glassy kind of reverb, and the Tonehammer got a bit muddier.

 

[57pbass]

Just my experience, but I'd say that if 800 Watts into the 212 cabs I'm familiar with doesn't get you some serious oomph, you may have the wrong cab for your tone goals. 1200 Watts into most 212's would add something spectacular, but my guess is that it would be short-lived and require the immediate use of a backup cab.

The Berg Fortes (any version) are spectacular heads and I'm also a big Mesa WD fan. The WD with some added bass EQ and set to low damping should with just a touch of HPF (to trim out sub lows) should get you a thunderous low end punch IME.

Al, I've had most success with the WD800 and the 2x12 set up. Having the ability to drive that tube is a great feature on that head.
I had the TT800 and had to tweak it so hard to get it sounding right for me and it was still lacking.
Also the same on the FORTE Classic..they are great products but that has been my real world experience with them.

 

[Swampish]

Use a GK MB 500 as my main amp driving my TC Electronics K210. Also use a TC Electronics BQ250 for practicing at home. The GK has a lot of tonal variety and a solid output through a single cab (350W in my case, 500W if I add another cab like a 15", for example, but since we do smaller gigs, not really necessary for now). The TC is a great practice amp, but just not enough oomph for me. So many good D-class amps out there to choose from. I'm guessing, even on a budget, it would be hard to go wrong.

 

[Low Down Brown]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the Quilter BB800 yet. I've been using it for a couple of years and it is just a tiny beast. I chose it because I use an HX Stomp and other external preamps for my EQ/tone and the BB800 for the power. To my understanding, Pat Quilter designed it to mimic to heft of a tube power amp, and I think it does a great job of that. When I use a B15 or SVT style model or preamp, it really does a great job of copping the sound...and the good thing is that the BB800 fits on a pedalboard with all of my other stuff.

 

[Matty Koff]

I have a Mesa WD-800. I haven't played the old behemoth tube amps of old.. but I like my little 7lb amp with a preamp tube that can be overdriven. Currently I have a Pod Go and, while I can't compare the included amp/preamp sims to the real things.. the M9 Carbine sim sure can sound really close to my WD-800, at least through headphones. The SVT sims are a lot of fun to play through as well. Not to mention adding cab simulations when utilizing the amp for just the direct out.

The Pod can toggle between sending a signal to the main input of my amp, or to the effects loop, as lets me place effects before or after the preamp, and I can switch between the preamp of my amp, and one of the amp sims on the Pod with a foot switch.


No lie it kind of makes me want a Helix LT or Floor because it has added routing capability as well as more processing power and signal chain customization.. but.. the Pod Go is teaching me a lot about my signal chain that would've required a lot more work with my board full of individual pedals... and part of that is that 20 years into the 21st century, while we might not have Jetson cars.. we can make just about any amp or PA work for us as bass players depending on how you want to go about it.

That being said.. I'm still glad I have my WD-800. It's packed full of features.

 

[IvanMike]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the Quilter BB800 yet. I've been using it for a couple of years and it is just a tiny beast. I chose it because I use an HX Stomp and other external preamps for my EQ/tone and the BB800 for the power. To my understanding, Pat Quilter designed it to mimic to heft of a tube power amp, and I think it does a great job of that. When I use a B15 or SVT style model or preamp, it really does a great job of copping the sound...and the good thing is that the BB800 fits on a pedalboard with all of my other stuff.

Is that just a power amp?

 

[Low Down Brown]

Is that just a power amp?

It is a bass amplifier. 450 watts @ 8 ohms, 800 @ 4 ohms. The eq is very simple in its design, but very useable. I've used it on its own several times and I've never been disappointed. It really works for me though since it has an xlr line in to bypass the eq/limiter and just utilize the power section. I think it really takes the amp models and translates them well that way. Quilter released the BB802 last year that has an expanded EQ section. Other than the D.I. ins/outs, I hear good things about it.

 

[Wicked G]

I'd like to jump into this conversation. I currently own quite a few toys that I gig with regularly:

MESA TT800
ORANGE TERROR BASS 500
ORANGE 4 STROKE 300
TC ELECTRONIC RH750
TC ELECTRONIC RH450
TC ELECTRONIC BH800
GENZ BENZ STREAMLINER 600
GENZ BENZ NEO PAK 3.5
GENZLER MAGELLAN 800
ASHDOWN ROOTMASTER 500 EVO
GALLIEN KRUEGER 700RB II

As you can see the majority of them are Class D while the 4 Stroke, 700rb II and NEO PAK are not. I find that Class D has been extremely reliable for me. None of them have ever quit on me (knock on wood).

As a comparison I have had my TC RH450 and RH750 since 2014 and they are still going strong while my GK 700rb II is only 3 years and has already had to go to the shop. I hope I didn't just jinx myself here.

All of them sound different in regards to tone and they are all loud regardless of topology. As for feel, I think the biggest difference is that older amps did not have built in HPF's which remove a lot of the low end that you can't really hear, but definitely feel. And they are great for protecting speakers.

Anyway that's my 2 cents. Have a good day.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

How does the Bergantino compare to the Demeter in terms of tone? ~ I use a Demeter and an Avalon U5 as my main preamps

I had a Demeter Preamp into a Crown Power amp. When I changed to the Genzler, it seemed I could get the same tone easily.

Now I use the Berg, and it has way more capability than the Demeter or the Genzler. I have a B|Amp; it can do things most other amps can't, period.

 

[msb]

My first Class D head was a GB Streamliner 900 . It has a three tube preamp so I guess it's really a hybred , but it was easy to dial up something warm and fat . I also have a Bergantino Forte , it's about the opposite . Clean and transparent . I was surprised by how much I love it . I run a couple of Berg cabs , a 112 and 210 , sometimes just bring a single cab , depending on the gig . It's a great modular approach . Between the two heads and two cabs I can cover most anything . Recently sent the Liner off to the spa to get refreshed . It's like a new amp and I was really happy to learn that they are still serviced . Great amp !
I also run a little GK MB 200 as a practice head . Either through an Ampeg 210AV or a tiny Phil Jones C2 . It has an aux in and headphone out so I can plug in a tablet . Great rehearsal rig .
I'm happy with the heads and cabs I run , but I do like the look of the Mesa TT800 . I wouldn't be surprised if I broke down and picked one up .

 

[Pilgrim]

I was using a Sunn Coliseum-300 amp when I had a chance to try a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 into one of their T-12 Shuttle cabs. I thought I barely had it set to a moderate level, but when I hit a note it overpowered everybody warming up. They all stopped and asked "what was THAT?"

After that gig I told my wife what I wanted for Christmas - that Shuttle 6.0 and a pair of T12 speakers. That was more than 10 years ago. I upgraded the Shuttle to a 6.2 to take advantage of the newer voicing, but that's all I have needed to do. I sold one T12 speaker and picked up a 2x10 (T210) Shuttle speaker on a whim. Later I picked up a used Genz NeoX212 cabinet, but that was sheer dreaming on my part...that cab is capable of cruel loudness that I'll probably never need. I know amp ratings are highly undependable, but the rating on that Shuttle 6.2 is 375W peak into 8 ohms, 600W into 4 ohms. I can tell you that it sounds like EVERY BIT of that power is present at all times. I have never wanted more power on any gig I have played. At 3.75 pounds, that amp is a wonder.

I have a Fender Rumble 100 for practice, but the gig rig is the Shuttle and whatever combination of cabs I need. My band isn't a silly loud one, and I'd use a single T12 for anything up to 100 people, but I'd play to a whole gym using the 4 ohm NeoX212. I like the tube preamp which can produce some nice driven tones, or you can keep it very clean. I always play with flats, and that combination works extremely well with the Genz Shuttle.

The Genz Shuttle hasn't hiccupped in 10 years, and I have no expectation it will in the next 10. It's extremely well built.