Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

[Engle]

My PF350 sounded great until it developed shut down issues after being in a cold car trunk for an afternoon.
I used my MB200 for a lot of gigs and will again when I can. It punches hard for its size and seems as loud or louder than the PF350 was.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I had a Demeter Preamp into a Crown Power amp. When I changed to the Genzler, it seemed I could get the same tone easily.

Now I use the Berg, and it has way more capability than the Demeter or the Genzler. I have a B|Amp; it can do things most other amps can't, period.

Maybe I ought to say what cabs I had been using kind of off and on. Early on an Epifani 3-10 UL with a Schroeder 1212L.

Then I got another Schroeder 12PL and been using just the two Schroeder cabs three twelves in all, and very efficient. It is now used the most. The 3-10 Epi cab got moved to the rehearsal studio.

But I have used the Epi 3-10 and both Schroders for three Twelves and three Tens with the Berg. It is powerful.

 

[Al Kraft]

Al, I've had most success with the WD800 and the 2x12 set up. Having the ability to drive that tube is a great feature on that head.
I had the TT800 and had to tweak it so hard to get it sounding right for me and it was still lacking.
Also the same on the FORTE Classic..they are great products but that has been my real world experience with them.

Out of that group it doesn't surprise me that the WD felt like it had the hardest hitting low end. To me the Forte is a more subtle and transparent head, which I actually like a lot. I hear you on the TT as it's one of the few heads where I flip the deep switch on and it's not too much.

I'm just wondering though how much of a difference you'll hear in the Forte with 400 more Watts. If you were running out of headroom with 800, it might be useful, but it sounds more to me like the basic voicing is not getting you what you're looking for, not lack of power. It'll be interesting to hear what you discover and how much of a difference you feel additional power makes - I've heard, but not had a chance to play the 1200 Watt version.

 

[Relsom]

I use a Shuttle 6.2 - 112 Combo and a 112T EXT for gigs. Though I always have PA support, I do rely on it for stage sound. On concrete, I would agree with a lot of reviewers that state the Shuttles lack real depth. I think part of it is the compactness of the whole rig. A compromise I'm willing to live with. If coupled to a wooden stage, which most have been, I have no problem getting all of the heft I need. I have a 9.2 as a backup. Other Class D heads I've owned were the Kustom KXB 500 - Great head. Organic and punchy....a lot like the D800. The only reason I sold it was a perceived problem getting serviced if it ever started acting up...which it never did. I couldn't get along with the Tonehammer 500...... twiddled knobs forever without really ever diggin' what I got out of it. Mesa D800 - Love it. Very organic, punchy, hefty tones, and very easy to get it sounding great. Sold the first one, missed it, bought another and plan on keeping it.

 

[DJ Bebop]

My first class D was a GK MB500 to use as a small, light, easy to carry along backup for my Mesa Carbines (I own the M3, 6 and 9). The voicing is actually quite similar. After fooling around with the little GK I thought I would try the 200 and 800 versions as well (I own all three models).

My first thought was that they were surprisingly powerful and great sounding for their size and weight. Then as an engineer it became obvious that size and weight has nothing to do with tone or volume, it's about voicing. IMO some of the early class D bass amp designs were executed by folks who were not as familiar with that technology and/or its application to bass guitar amplification. FWIW, it's equally easy to goon up a class A/B tube or SS/hybrid bass amp design as well if you're not an expert in using that technology.

I decided to try an Aguilar TH500 and it shocked me that it sounded and felt (in playing it) very much like a tube amp - yet it was all solid state and class D to boot. Then I thought about my GK MBs which in a busy mix could easily be mistaken for a GK RB series head. This simply reinforced for me that "class D in and of itself" doesn't dictate a single tone or voicing outcome.

I then acquired a Mesa D-800, WD-800 and TT-800. All three have unique tonal and voicing characteristics as well as a unique playing feel that should convince anyone that class D isn't a sound/voicing/tone, it's just a technology. My heavy gear stays home almost all the time these days and the class D gear is what I take to gigs.

It's not a compromise or trade-off. If my class D heads were in a bigger box with lead weight (to physically mimic say my Carbines) they would still impress me. The key here is that they are good designs by engineers who have mastered the application of this technology to bass guitar amplification.

 

[lokikallas]

I can only say I never looked back when I replaced my 3 pro with a 7 pro.

 

[Hasty]

I’ve had three.

1. Ampeg PF-500 that was decent, but didn’t like to be pushed hard. Had it get too hot on me at a gig once, then did fine after our break. Never really trusted it again after that though.
2. TC Electronic BAM200 is a nice little amp. Great little practice amp or for small jazz trio work. Clean and dependable, weighs about as much as an effect pedal and fits in my gig bag as a backup.
3.EA Doubler. This is my go to. Clean, transparent, and powerful. Totally reliable and I’ve been gigging with it as my primary for maybe 3 years now? Even if it died on me tomorrow, I would probably replace it with another Doubler or a Euphonic Classic. Also, the doubler fits in a pocket of my double bass.

 

[Sixgunn]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the Quilter BB800 yet. I've been using it for a couple of years and it is just a tiny beast. I chose it because I use an HX Stomp and other external preamps for my EQ/tone and the BB800 for the power. To my understanding, Pat Quilter designed it to mimic to heft of a tube power amp, and I think it does a great job of that. When I use a B15 or SVT style model or preamp, it really does a great job of copping the sound...and the good thing is that the BB800 fits on a pedalboard with all of my other stuff.

Yep. I have one also and it's an awesome little beastie!!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Carvin BX 1500, nice and clean, still use it once in a while.
It took a back set to a Mesa WD 800, more texture.

None class D stuff, GK 1001 RB, some Sunn stuff, Ampeg B 15, a few pieces of Peavey here and there, that Standel combo

 

[slagbass]

I've gone through a few 800 watt Class D heads and they just simply lack (IMHO of course) the chest thumping thickness that my older heads seem to have had in spades.

I haven't used many class D heads but I purchased a Demeter Minnie 800D to pair with my old VTBP-201 a few years ago. My experience was similar to 57pbass. It sounded ok at first, but in a band setting certain frequencies seemed to jump out more and it just didn't have as much wallop/girth/authority as my old Carver PM420 lead sled (note: only 240W bridged). The difference was, to me, night and day.

I know the Minnie is a well-regarded amp. As such, it's soured me on class D in general. That might be unfair but, until I get to the stage when I can't haul the amps I'm using, I'm not going to waste any more of my time (and money) on them.

 

[SJan3]

I used a Mark Bass LMII and then a LMIII for several years. They were both very dependable, it was not necessary for me to upgrade to the LMIII there was no difference between except for a few features; when possible, I kept the LMII at a band practice space, and kept the LMIII at home for practice and use at gigs. They are lightweight, easy to transport. I housed them in amp case purchased from Mark Bass; neither amp ever left the case. I coupled them with MB 2x10 and 1x15 cabinets, either alone or in combo depending on the venue.

I was able to dial in the tones I liked with them. I basically played in blues rock, classical rock and a prog band. My basses were generally active though I sometimes played passive basses; for example: Fender Roscoe Beck 5, Status Streamline 5-string and Stealth 6-string, Ibanez Gary Willis fretless. The setup had no difficulty articulating the low B string notes. The MB amp/cabinet combos tend to accentuate the upper mids but that can be easily adjusted with the amp equalization knobs and the active bass settings.

Overall, if I get back into playing again, I will go back to MB.

The Littlemark amp case is a great idea and convenience. I, too, have never removed the amp from the case. And the amp never gets hot. Just unzip the front and back, plug and play.

 

[Joebone]

I have a strong bias toward good Class A/B, but the better Class D amps are really, really good. I have personal experience with the Mark Bass LM II (as a head and in their 1-12 combo) (and this is small, but isn't really a class D amp, is it?), Puma 1000, Aguilar 500, Genz Benz 3.0, 6.2, 9.2, the Subway 800+, and just copped a used Trickfish Bullhead 1.0.

The Genz Benz stuff is quite good - I keep a 9.2 to run two 1-12 cabinets designed for the 6.2, and a 3.0-10T combo for personal practice and small things. Their biggest amp the 12.2 is also good (briefly had one, and wish I'd kept it), but too large for a gig bag. The Mesa Subway is better still - more depth and thickness than the GB, while less gooey than some of the other Class D stuff that presents girth in an artificial fashion, and doesn't seem to track left and right-hand nuance - it's like you get a fat good tone, but nuance is not getting through, particularly on the attack side of the envelope. Back to the Subway; the HPF control - and damping selection on the WD 800 - are really good tools. I maintain rigs in two locations, and was about to pull the trigger on a WD800, but instead popped for a used Trickfish 1.0. No gig experience as of yet and have only had it for a week, but it seems to get me the closest to the better Class A/B amps - fast, warm, clean, smart EQ points...and more slam than my 1-15 4-ohm cabinet can field - I will have to be careful. But it's 15" wide, so not likely meet your gig-bag requirement.

Net net - if you want small, and good sound, its the Mesa 800 or 800+, or an old Genz Benz. Have only played once through a Magellan - liked what I felt and heard, but not enough time with it to venture a real opinion - yet may well be worth your investigation.

 

[Altitude]

Since about 2008 I've had:

• A Markbass LittleMark II (which I think actually was not a class-D but was a vanguard product in the micro-amp space anyway)
• An EA iAMP 800
  
• A Markbass F1
• A Genz-Benz Shuttle 9
• A GK MB Fusion 500
• A Mesa D800

I gigged them all and they were all great. No issues. I should probably have kept the Markbass F1 a lot longer than I did; I was in a bored phase and was flipping amp heads for no good reason.

At this point I've had the GK the longest, about 9 years. I probably like its sound the best, but I wish it had a little more push. The MB Fusion 800 would probably be perfect.

The Mesa, though, I get the sense it will outlive me. There's no sense at all of reliability issues, the amp not doing what it's supposed to. It's a pro-quality product by any measurement.

 

[57pbass]

Out of that group it doesn't surprise me that the WD felt like it had the hardest hitting low end. To me the Forte is a more subtle and transparent head, which I actually like a lot. I hear you on the TT as it's one of the few heads where I flip the deep switch on and it's not too much.

I'm just wondering though how much of a difference you'll hear in the Forte with 400 more Watts. If you were running out of headroom with 800, it might be useful, but it sounds more to me like the basic voicing is not getting you what you're looking for, not lack of power. It'll be interesting to hear what you discover and how much of a difference you feel additional power makes - I've heard, but not had a chance to play the 1200 Watt version.

Al, When I acquired the FORTE HP it was right around Feb 2020 and COVID hit and every show was cancelled..so it now sits in storage. I have not had a real chance to test it in a live setting and am also very curious.

 

[SiSoldier]

A few that i've owned are:

1) Ampeg SVT 7 Pro - Amazing amp that fit all my needs, but it was part of the bad batch of 7 pros and only lasted a few months.

2) GKMB200 - Initially purchased for home silent practicing to be used with aux, but quickly found the bass signal and aux line did not sound great together. It moved to a backup amp role and it saved me during 2 gigs! Also used it as a guitar amp at another gig (sounded great!) The tone was definitely GK and I really enjoyed its simple design, wish i never sold that one and they are too expensive now.

3) TC BH250 - This one is my "sleeper" amp. Purchased it for $125 and it does everything I wanted the MB200 to do. Amp handles all my silent practice and I use the tone print option often when jamming on my spotify playlist and go from a Misfits (Distortion) song to The Weeknd(Octave/Synth). The tone is okay flat, tone print helps a lot, and the EQ is straightforward. Not worried about power with this one with the signal going to an 810 at rehearsals.

 

[b_carville]

Yep. I have one also and it's an awesome little beastie!!

I can vouch for mine!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I’m laughing as I write this because I used to be the co-moderator of this forum years ago and I may be breaking several of my rules for posting.

I haven’t followed recent events with the new ultra small ultralight ultra portable class D amplifier heads that have become quite popular lately. I’ve only been peripherally aware of them. However, I am interested in getting one for practices and smaller gigs. I’ve got no intention of replacing my main rig and I’m quite aware that it’s unfair to compare them directly against one another.

The portable head that it has to beat is an old SWR electric blue had which is 14” x 14” x 5” and tips the scale at 14 pounds. The rated wattage of that unit is 150 into four and 120 into eight.

A disclaimer about wattage: I’ve been around long enough and done enough A/B comparisons to know that there is the wattage that the manufacturer claims for their amplifier, and then there is what you actually experience. I’m less interested in what the amplifier says on the package, I’m a lot more interested in what you have actually experienced. Especially if you have put two or three or more of these little heads up against one another and found out which ones are actually louder than the others. I won’t bore you with the war stories but I have certainly seen “standard” amplifiers blow other “standard” amplifiers out of the water that were rated at four times the wattage. (I’m not going to mention that these might have been the old Trace Elliot amplifiers and the Aguilar DB 750). If one amp is significantly louder than another, let me know.

Tone itself is of course subjective. However I would be interested in your thoughts here as well, especially if you have had the opportunity to do direct comparisons.

otherwise, portability is certainly a factor, otherwise I would not be writing this. It seems like they are all the same ballpark in terms of weight being somewhere around 3 to 5 pounds give or take. I’m a little more interested in actual outside dimensions and if they fit in something like a gig bag. Being able to carry a gig bag and a small cabinet and be done with it is kind of a holy Grail.

in the future I might inquire about how the small and light cabinet scene is these days. I’m not about to give up my bag and cabinets, and anybody who has been around a long time those that I was quite a champion for them. However, despite being compact they are on the heavy side. I do miss my GS 112 but I know that there are quite a few cabinets that have popped up in the last 10 years or so.

Anyhow, let me know your experiences. How they stacked up to one another in terms of volume and tone. How well you’re able to fit it in a gig bag or something like that. If you experienced problems, what were they? If you picked one over the others after doing comparisons, why?

Just to be clear, if you have opinions without experience I’m really not interested in that. And comments that little class the amplifiers are no good or will never be as good as regular class A or class B amplifiers are exactly helpful either. Remember, I’m not looking to replace anything, just for another option. Edit: “class D amps are great” without letting me know which one you like and why isn’t super helpful either.

thanks a lot in advance ~ Ivan

Only have one class D amp at this point although I was hoping to add a second one back in April of 2020. I only use gig money to buy new gear and I figured I would have enough $$ put aside to buy the DNA-800 class D amp with the discounted price I get for being a DNA endorser (I have two DNS cabs by DNA).

My primary amp head is an Eden WT500/800 that lived on David Nordschow's testing bench for cab design from 1999 until 2009 when he left Eden. He had upgraded it to 800-watts bridged into 8 ohms and I bought it from him in 2010. It has his amazingly versatile 5-way EQ with three of those being semi-parametric controls addressing the entire range of frequencies from 30Hz to 14KHz. It immediately became my main amp and I bought a rack for it bringing its weight to about 36-lbs. Sounds amazingly good, but it's heavy and I'm an old fart.

I also have an Eden TN226 class D amp. It puts out 225-watts, has bass and treble shelving controls plus a low-mid semi-parametric and a high-mid semi-parametric. I can (and do) get the same sound out of this little 4.7-lb amp as I get out of my 36-lb Eden amp but far less power. It has a better auto-compressor than the auto-compressor on Eden's WT amps, which is a real plus and it has a nice bass boost to allow you to boost the bass without scooping any other frequencies out.

I very specifically bought an Eden EX-112 cab for a small brew pub where we played on most Friday nights because they wouldn't let me bring in my DNS410 and my 800-watt amp. Had to play through a Peavey 112 combo for about a year before whoever owned that amp took it home (thank heavens!). Played through my WTDI into our mains that night and for the next few weeks until I got my Eden EX-112. Figuring I would only use it at that one venue, I ordered it in 4 ohm to get the most out of one of another older Eden amp (Eden Nemesis RS400 - 400-watts rms into 4Ω). Sounded so good the first night that I immediately ordered a second and I started using both at medium sized venues with my big amp.

Then a friend put this Eden Invalid Link Removed up for sale. He gave me a good price on it and included a shoulder bag, so I bought it. Was really impressed the first night I used it. Sounded just as good as my WT500/800, which has a hybrid preamp. This little TN-226 has that "golden ear" chip in it that among other things adds that tube warmth that my big amp has. I usually run my Eden/DNA gear flat with just a little boost at 250Hz. Dialed that in and felt right at home.

One night we got a little loud and my power clipping light started flashing. Dropped out the bass boost first, still flashed, then dropped the bass down to 11 o'clock and still flashed. Dropped the master down and ran the gain up (still had headroom in the gain) and it flashed less. Finally gave up and engaged the auto-compressor and it stopped flashing. I'd hesitated to engage it because the one in my big Eden amp sounds crappy when it engages. This one was very smooth and I often leave it engaged now. If I had purchased my 112's as 8 ohm cabs, I could drive both speakers with it, but I didn't, so I couldn't. Actually wish I had purchased the 500-watt version, which is the Invalid Link Removed. All the features are the same, but power is 500-watts rms into 4Ω instead of 225-watts - much more versatile!

So it lives as my small venue set-up with one of my Eden 112's. Really nice thing about it is I put the amp in my shoulder bag over one shoulder, my gig bag over the other shoulder, grab the top handle on my EX-112 in one hand and my bass in its case in the other and load-in/out is pretty well done. I do have to go back out for my mic stand and stage stool but it's a real quick load in and load out without any sacrifice in my sound.

Here's what my small-venue set-up looks like sitting on a chair with my shoulder bag and gig bag underneath it. Works great for this but I would want the TN-501 for medium and large venues though:

Actually, what I really want is David's most recent amp design at DNA, the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. It weighs out at 4.8-lbs, puts out 800-watts into a 4 ohm load and almost as much into a 2 ohm load, though David prefers its sound with a 4 ohm or 8 ohm load (same as he said with his Eden WT amps). The EQ is simplified but has some good centers. Bass control is centered at 35Hz, low-mid is centered at 500Hz, Hi-mid is centered around 2KHz, and Treble is a shelving control for everything above that.

The compressor has adjustable threshold and ratio controls and of course it has an effects loop, aux-in, mute, and an additional input on the back so you can set up clean rack presentation if you like. Use either on or the other, not both at once. Street price is $799. But...I don't have it and won't until we start gigging again. With it I can run my DNS-410 or DNS-210 or both at once if I like....still waiting on my Covid vaccination before I can even think about gigging again though.

 

[Gyver]

I have a GK Legacy 800, which I like a lot. My previous amp was a GK 700 RB-II, which I loved until it fizzled out on me. I really like the GK sound. The Legacy sounds very similar to the RB, and once I figured out how to set the Boost (on), Contour (off) and Presence (on) on the Legacy to get the sound I wanted I like it even more.

 

[Maynjo]

I also came from SWR, and I have to say my AG 700 sounds better than my old 750x. Louder? Nah probably not, but it's close. I think the AG is a great choice if you're looking for that super clean SWR sound. Is it an exact match? No, but it's very versatile and you can get pretty close to it IMO.

 

[Axtman]

Class D amps are small, light weight, powerful, run cool and have great tone. What is there not to love?

I have owned, or do currently own, Carvin, Ampeg, and GK Class D amps. Of them I like the GK amps the best. Carvin has had reliability issues and is junk. I guess that is why they don't make amps anymore.

Old rack gear is low powered, heavy and hard to sell. I guess an advantage is if the rack gear amp was a bar backup band rig and you were worried about it being stolen.

Tube amps are great but tend to be finicky and fragile at times. I still do love the sound, but my back will not allow an SVT.

One disadvantage about Class D amps is when they blow they tend to take out a lot of components. Most of the time it is better to just replace boards than try to repair at component level. The good thing is manufacturers have designed fail safe mechanisms to prevent the domino effect. On my GK amp you can short the output and the amp will just go into shut down. If you did that with a regular solid state amp it would blown the output transistors.