^^ the guy who designed the Genz Benz Shuttle line also designed the Mesa Subway line, and is a regular on these forums. I very much enjoyed my brief experience through a loaned Shuttle 6.0.
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Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience
- Thread starter IvanMike
- Start date
^^ the guy who designed the Genz Benz Shuttle line also designed the Mesa Subway line, and is a regular on these forums. I very much enjoyed my brief experience through a loaned Shuttle 6.0.
I've had a few over the years.
1) Euphonic Audio iAmp350 - Anyone else remember when EA was all the rage? I got this amp in the early 2000's and although it's Class D it still weights 20-30lb. It feels and sounds great, after all these years the EA tone shaping setup is still amazing and not many other companies have come close.
2) Acoustic Image Clarus - Need something that sounds great on electric and upright? This is a no nonsense 'instrument' amplifier that excels at delivering transparent clean tone with decent headroom for the power.
3) Aguilar TH350 - Does it sound tubey? Surprisingly yes. Aguilar really nailed making the amp feel right.
4) Darkglass M900 - You know what Darkglass stuff sounds like but don't sleep on the clean side of this amp. I've used it for years on jazz gigs and even with upright. The ICE modules have an obscene amount of power and the tone shaping is really great.
1) Euphonic Audio iAmp350 - Anyone else remember when EA was all the rage? I got this amp in the early 2000's and although it's Class D it still weights 20-30lb. It feels and sounds great, after all these years the EA tone shaping setup is still amazing and not many other companies have come close.
2) Acoustic Image Clarus - Need something that sounds great on electric and upright? This is a no nonsense 'instrument' amplifier that excels at delivering transparent clean tone with decent headroom for the power.
3) Aguilar TH350 - Does it sound tubey? Surprisingly yes. Aguilar really nailed making the amp feel right.
4) Darkglass M900 - You know what Darkglass stuff sounds like but don't sleep on the clean side of this amp. I've used it for years on jazz gigs and even with upright. The ICE modules have an obscene amount of power and the tone shaping is really great.
Old Solid Sate (tube pre) amp: GBE 600 .
and did not prefer it to my Streamliner + Berg 112.
I'll add this detail:
One thing I love about tube amps is dialing in the responsiveness to my plucking, so how hard I dig in determines how overdriven my tone becomes. It's one of the first things I tried with my Streamliner and GenzBenz absolutely nailed it.
Just my feels, YMMV
- Sounded great
- 275Watts @ 8 ohms 425 watts @ 4 ohms,
- ~ 40 lbs
- load-in: <1 trip
- sounds better than the GBE 600
- 500 watts @ 8 ohms; 900 watts @ 4 ohms
- 7 lbs
- load-in: 1 trip
and did not prefer it to my Streamliner + Berg 112.
I'll add this detail:
One thing I love about tube amps is dialing in the responsiveness to my plucking, so how hard I dig in determines how overdriven my tone becomes. It's one of the first things I tried with my Streamliner and GenzBenz absolutely nailed it.
Just my feels, YMMV
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I enjoyed my little Markbass tube 800 for about 6 years then it crapped out just about when the TT800 from Mesa came out which was probably a sign. I got one and it is the best bass amp I've ever played through by a big margin
I am usually looking for a bloomy, big tone.
I have owned Tech21 VT500 Warwick LWA1000, Darkglass 900 and still own the little Trace Elliot Elf and a TC RH750.
Besides that there's an Ampeg SVT4-pro, Trace Elliot RAH600SMX and a Trace Elliot Hexa Valve full tube head.
Other amps I played through were an Aguilar TH350 and that tiny Ampeg head.
When at home in my sonically treated mancave attic homestudio I really appreciate the lively tone the hybrid Ampeg and tube Trace give me. It makes me feel completely in touch with what I play. Here is where I choose to not use any of the lightweight amps because they sound much more direct and transparent.
On stage though with the loud soundlevels it matters less . The ears are not as picky at these volumes and I find myself not caring as much.
What I am trying to say is the situation changes the requirements of the tone I need/want.
When picking a lightweight rig I just want as much utility value as I can possibly get. For this reason I chose the RH750 with its 3 presets, built in tuner, very flexible EQ and a good compressor. It is plug&play.
The Darkglass amp was great too, but I did not like the Warwick LWA at all. When dialing in bottom end on it it also raises the lower mids and the treble knob sits at the fizzy freq. I guess the pre section on a class D makes or breaks it.
For larger gigs I still do bring the big guns, keeping the RH750 as a backup.
I have owned Tech21 VT500 Warwick LWA1000, Darkglass 900 and still own the little Trace Elliot Elf and a TC RH750.
Besides that there's an Ampeg SVT4-pro, Trace Elliot RAH600SMX and a Trace Elliot Hexa Valve full tube head.
Other amps I played through were an Aguilar TH350 and that tiny Ampeg head.
When at home in my sonically treated mancave attic homestudio I really appreciate the lively tone the hybrid Ampeg and tube Trace give me. It makes me feel completely in touch with what I play. Here is where I choose to not use any of the lightweight amps because they sound much more direct and transparent.
On stage though with the loud soundlevels it matters less . The ears are not as picky at these volumes and I find myself not caring as much.
What I am trying to say is the situation changes the requirements of the tone I need/want.
When picking a lightweight rig I just want as much utility value as I can possibly get. For this reason I chose the RH750 with its 3 presets, built in tuner, very flexible EQ and a good compressor. It is plug&play.
The Darkglass amp was great too, but I did not like the Warwick LWA at all. When dialing in bottom end on it it also raises the lower mids and the treble knob sits at the fizzy freq. I guess the pre section on a class D makes or breaks it.
For larger gigs I still do bring the big guns, keeping the RH750 as a backup.
I’m surprised to see almost no mentions of the Aguilar tone hammer amps. I thought they were popular?
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
My impression of the Bergantino B Amp was not dissimilar to my old Demeter HPB-1 (which I would love to have back) in terms of clarity alone. The Demeter has a tube vibe beyond what the B Amp can muster but the trade off is worth it if you need a portable Class D size head that has uber tonal flexibility. I have not tried the Forte HP so cannot comment directly but I suspect it's along the same lines-very clean and natural.
For the past 7 years I used a Demeter HBP1 into the return of a Streamliner 900 for all of our outdoor jobs. More power than i could ever need. Indoors, the 900 Streamliner, real pushy amp if you want it. I bought a Berg Forte HP last year, didn’t get to gig it yet, but I think the drive circuit, whichever one you pick, will get you there in a live band situation.
FWIW I have a GK MB Fusion 800 and a Mesa WD 800. Both run through GK Neo 410 cabs. I bought the GK used on TB and was very happy with it (and still am after it was resurrected from the dead). I found it to be very loud and I never needed the volume it can produce (I have PA support when gigging; bandmates who value hearing when rehearsing...). I really liked the ability to switch between a cleaner and a grittier channel with a click of the foot switch and that is what I miss most about the GK compared to the Mesa. The GK did die on me and it took a bit for a local tech (GK stopped doing factory service on amps out of warranty) to diagnose and repair it (about 2 years ago) Since then it has lived in the practice space and sounds as good as it ever did. One other comment on the GK is that I never liked the way the knobs felt and a little twist could result in a big change in output. Overall, no complaints. My view is that (in contrast to @Altitude) I would likely prefer the MBF 500 because I never needed the power on tap from the MBF 800.
When the GK died a picked up the WD 800 new and couldn't be happier. It has more than enough power to drive one or both 410 cabs and the tone shaping is versatile and more to my liking (I tend to favor higher input gain with a bass and mid boost). I know this is very subjective but the Mesa just feels solid. It's my number one amp now.
And Quilter is the Q in QSC... they know a lot about power amps. I sold my MB800F soon after getting the original BB800. Loved the heft, simplicity, tone, and form factor.
Also, I’m coming from a rig that had a Crown Microtech 1200 for power before I went to the Streamliner 900. BTW, I still like the low end of the HBP1 better than the Streamliner 900. I could still do the same thing with the Forte HP and use it for power only or flavor since the return of that amp goes through the EQ which is really cool. Having 1200 watts doesn’t hurt either.
Have used a ToneHamer 500 for six years and a Rumble 150 for eight, the atH is great, easy to get great toan, zero reliability issues with either, class d do not like low voltage as it will damage them so once playing in a barn with terrible wiring the TH kept shutting off whenever anyone touched the electric but that is how they are designed, if the voltage is low they will get seriously damaged so class d will shut down first.
I have a gk mb200 with a 212 cab and it's loud enough to play in my metal band with no issues. Think I only had it half way up on volume. And it sounds like a gk.
Gk is always conservative in their watts
Gk is always conservative in their watts
I played a gk 1001rb for years and it got a little tired. Little issue that could be fixed for a couple hundred but...
I was gassing anyway for a new Mesa head, and bought a D800 Plus about 6ish months ago. I know that power supply has been in use for a while and felt confident in buying it. I have played approx. 30 shows with it and it has been flawless. Have used 1 and 2 subway 210s, and one show with a fender pro 810. The 2 210s are plenty loud even on large stages, the 810 is glorious but a hassle to move around.
That particular amp with a Spector Euro with US Haz is run flat generally maybe a bit of highpass. On the Spector bass is dimed, treble slightly above flat or more depending on the tone I am after. No effects (except the Haz, which growls when needed). I do tend to overdrive the input on the mesa slightly to get a little dirt.
It sounds epic and the sound engineers love it.
On another note, I will buy a subway plus preamp if I can ever leave the state again (The rona thing). I bring the head even if there is a backline here in FL.
I was gassing anyway for a new Mesa head, and bought a D800 Plus about 6ish months ago. I know that power supply has been in use for a while and felt confident in buying it. I have played approx. 30 shows with it and it has been flawless. Have used 1 and 2 subway 210s, and one show with a fender pro 810. The 2 210s are plenty loud even on large stages, the 810 is glorious but a hassle to move around.
That particular amp with a Spector Euro with US Haz is run flat generally maybe a bit of highpass. On the Spector bass is dimed, treble slightly above flat or more depending on the tone I am after. No effects (except the Haz, which growls when needed). I do tend to overdrive the input on the mesa slightly to get a little dirt.
It sounds epic and the sound engineers love it.
On another note, I will buy a subway plus preamp if I can ever leave the state again (The rona thing). I bring the head even if there is a backline here in FL.
I have the Darkglass Microtubes 500 v2 and the Mesa TT800. I love them both. Super Light, plenty of power and reliable.
I also own the Ampeg V4B, Ashdown ABM 600 and the Orange Terrorbass. I was trying to find a Class D that got me that tube pre-amp slightly compressed / OD tone and both the DG and Mesa fit the Bill.
I also own the Ampeg V4B, Ashdown ABM 600 and the Orange Terrorbass. I was trying to find a Class D that got me that tube pre-amp slightly compressed / OD tone and both the DG and Mesa fit the Bill.
I use a TC Electronic RH750 head. It has a feature set that is really hard to beat: 4-band semi-parametric EQ plus a "tweeter tone" high end control, tube grind, a great single-knob compressor, tuner, three memory locations to store different tones, and a footswitch. Amazing set of features. There was quite a lot of drama some years ago about its stated vs actual power output, however it is incredibly loud and despite many other great offerings on the market today I can't justify the $ it would take to replace it.
I've owned Genz Benz and GK class D amps too, as well as several pro-level PA power amps from Crown and QSC. I think well-designed class D amps today are the equal or better than any class AB amp from years before. Pick a reputable manufacturer and wade in. There's nothing like the easy load in they offer and it often brings a smile to my face to see something so small be so loud.
I've owned Genz Benz and GK class D amps too, as well as several pro-level PA power amps from Crown and QSC. I think well-designed class D amps today are the equal or better than any class AB amp from years before. Pick a reputable manufacturer and wade in. There's nothing like the easy load in they offer and it often brings a smile to my face to see something so small be so loud.
Had top of the line class D heads (2) at the time.
2 problems.
1) heads would be bounce off cabs (top tier maker of cabs, btw)
2) recording engineer ended up blowing up one of two power sections due to (you can fill in the blank here)...even at pretty much a bother-in-law kind of repair deal, it was 25% of it’s used street resale value.
2 problems.
1) heads would be bounce off cabs (top tier maker of cabs, btw)
2) recording engineer ended up blowing up one of two power sections due to (you can fill in the blank here)...even at pretty much a bother-in-law kind of repair deal, it was 25% of it’s used street resale value.
Here are my Class D amps: (including hybrids)
^ Ignore the bottom two . . . I do. ^
All four Class D's are at least 800 watts and have adequate power for any reasonable needs. Honestly, I only bought the Genz Benz Shuttle 12.0 because it was a screaming good deal, but other than testing it out, I don't have enough experience with it to render an opinion.
My tonal goals are to have a round, sound with a very tight bottom end . . . Like JPJ's early work with LZ. Any of the top three allow me to achieve this.
The GK is very easy to use and if you like their tone stack this is a good amp. A word of caution: the dual-use knobs tend to be a bit wonky and sometimes certain ones have to be adjusted towards one extreme or another in order to engage the secondary function.
The Mesa WD800 and D800+ are . . . Mesas. I consider them to be top of the line regular production amps. Perhaps there are some better boutique units, but they are likely to be cost-prohibitive and may not have the same reliability.
The Mesa units have a built-in HPF which is a very useful feature. Both are relatively intuitive and easy to use. My tonal goals are easily achievable with either one. I usually bring one of the two for a gig, and keep the GK in my truck as a backup whenever I go out to jam.
I know that watts is watts, but there does seem to be a certain slam which my DB750 and Strategy Eight 88 have which isn't perceived in the aforementioned units, but this could be my perception and I use those two with a certain stack of 4 10's which I don't take out so I don't have an apples to apples comparison . . . Just my impression.
^ Ignore the bottom two . . . I do. ^
All four Class D's are at least 800 watts and have adequate power for any reasonable needs. Honestly, I only bought the Genz Benz Shuttle 12.0 because it was a screaming good deal, but other than testing it out, I don't have enough experience with it to render an opinion.
My tonal goals are to have a round, sound with a very tight bottom end . . . Like JPJ's early work with LZ. Any of the top three allow me to achieve this.
The GK is very easy to use and if you like their tone stack this is a good amp. A word of caution: the dual-use knobs tend to be a bit wonky and sometimes certain ones have to be adjusted towards one extreme or another in order to engage the secondary function.
The Mesa WD800 and D800+ are . . . Mesas. I consider them to be top of the line regular production amps. Perhaps there are some better boutique units, but they are likely to be cost-prohibitive and may not have the same reliability.
The Mesa units have a built-in HPF which is a very useful feature. Both are relatively intuitive and easy to use. My tonal goals are easily achievable with either one. I usually bring one of the two for a gig, and keep the GK in my truck as a backup whenever I go out to jam.
I know that watts is watts, but there does seem to be a certain slam which my DB750 and Strategy Eight 88 have which isn't perceived in the aforementioned units, but this could be my perception and I use those two with a certain stack of 4 10's which I don't take out so I don't have an apples to apples comparison . . . Just my impression.
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Right now I'd recommend Aguilar amps. My go to amps since they came out have been a TH500 and AG700. Put them through 2 good 112 cabs (I use Barefaced) and you will sound fantastic.
They are loud, have powerful EQ sections, are super reliable and light. My amps have never bounced anywhere. If your lightweight amp does that, it means your cab isn't as well made as you thought.
I have an MB212 and it has plenty of volume and that nice GK tone. I use a tube stomp box with it sometimes,but using the contour button and a bit of jiggling the low and low mid can get a good solid tone. The MN112 is amazing for a little 1 12 " unit. Solid tone and plenty of volume. I practiced on a Markbass head for a while and that little amp was as solid as any tube amp, maybe even more so, I have played on. I have found 500 watt class D modules for sale, and I have been thinking about getting one and sticking a Urei clone tube comp in front of it.
What I like about class D is they work better at louder volumes, and they don't freak when you hit a low B. unlike a tube you aren't risking plate voltage starvation that creates compression and distortion. So if the speakers can handle it, the D will handle the B nicely.
What I like about class D is they work better at louder volumes, and they don't freak when you hit a low B. unlike a tube you aren't risking plate voltage starvation that creates compression and distortion. So if the speakers can handle it, the D will handle the B nicely.
