Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

[BigEarl]

The only two I am willing to review (the only two I still have left in my inventory!) is the GK 800MB and the Quilter Bass Block. The sounds could not be more radically different to my ears

Form Factor: MB800 is a little lighter and fits (barely) in a gig bag pocket. Quilter is just a bit heavier and and a bunch bulkier.

Ergonomics: MB800 knobs flat-out suck (sorry to all you who love them) the bushings are light on resistance and I can never get them to "set" properly when I turn them. Quilter has multi-indents which for some may not allow for the "precise setting", but they are solid and feel natural to the touch.

Volume: YMMV, but I think the Quilter has the MB800 beat

Tone: Aye, here's the big diff! MB800 has the GK tone though'n through, which means if you like some growl, you got it. The Quilter is the most dead quiet, clean and sweet class-D as I have ever heard. And when I say "quiet and clean" I mean waves of chocolate-fountain sweet creamy bass tones emit when set dead flat. I only use mine nooned, no EQ period (all EQ is supplied by my QStrip pedal before the pre) and I have been a happy camper ever since. The Quilter has this amazing ability to match it's amplification to your playing style, or at least that's the way it feels to me. And by "feel" I mean I can actually feel the amp play along with me, it's THAT musical!

In conclusion: If I am playing a gig I do not care about, the GK get the call. If I am playing a gig that is important (or I'm planning on using my pedalboard) it is the Quilter every time.

 

[Sam Reese]

What do you think IvanMike? Everybody's been letting you know what they think. Are you in the market? FWIW I have EA Doubler w/NL210 cab & Fender Rumble 800 w/ it's 210 extension cab. Both deliver volume and tone at gigs.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I'm currently using a Little Mark III with a MarkBass Traveler 2x10 and 1x15 w/ rear ports. If I needed more, I'd double it.

Past amps have included:
- Acoustic 320B head w/ 408 and various other cabinets (Yamaha 6x10, Peavey 1820, Acoustic 406)
- Lab Series L4 200w bass head w/ various cabinets
- Various Fender and Music Man tube heads, same as above
- Ampeg B15 flip top - theater pits and recording
- Fender Bassman 250 210 combo
- Various preamps with an AB1200 power amp and various cabinet combinations
- Ampeg V4B w/ 2x15 cabinet
- Ampeg SVT (70's) w/ various cabinets, including SVT 8x10
- So many combos I can't remember them.

The Class D LM III kills all of them, and not just for easy lifting. It's super clean, and I can dirty it up for the (tubey "Talk Bass" sound) with a pedal or two. The cabinets sound similar right in front of them or 20-30' out, unlike most of the older stuff. If I need a smaller amp, I leave one cabinet home. I even have a Trace 1x10 that sounds great with it.

I still use the Bassman 250 combo for certain stuff, including acoustic bass guitar, because I like the controls and overall package.

Other than the B15, I'd never consider buying any of the other stuff again.

 

[Bonecat]

I’ll chime in here, I guess. I’ve had a mix of amps over the years and I’ve honestly been the happiest with the class D amps I’ve owned. Started with a the first version of the AI Clarus - ridiculously accurate, useful if limited tone shaping, and eminently portable. Sold it when I moved from URB to BG as it lacked the power I required. Then it was a LM II - plenty of power, but I eventually became unsatisfied with the voicing. After that, I landed on my current rig, a Bergantino B/Amp, which is sort of the superhero love child of the other two - amazing accuracy, plenty of power, and huge tone shaping possibilities. I also have to note that all three of them were/are utterly reliable in my experience. No regrets and no more back injuries...

 

[logdrum]

I think the master volume/volume on class-D heads are linear. Case in point, Acoustic Image heads. Polite to begin with it seems but crank them with a capable cab/s and they are loud.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I think you really like your lead sleds, so I won’t try to dissuade you. But remember, it doesn’t have to be heavy to be loud. It’s not the weight of the amp that’s making the sound, it’s the electricity flowing through the amp. Class D just does it more efficiently without making a ton of heat in the process.

 

[cornfarmer]

If you're still looking for more opinions on the internet:

I've somehow become the owner of a Carvin BX500 (class D ~6lbs) and Ampeg PortaBass 250 (class A ~14lbs). I've only owned big led sleds, tube and solid state.

So far I've only used the Ampeg through a Schroeder 1x15 (~35lbs) at one rehearsal. It did some decent enough pant leg flapping. Tone is subjective - to me it sounds pretty much like any other '90s or newer SVT/Pro's I've used, so you know what you're getting. It's compact and 14lbs is easy peasy.

I am planning to use the Carvin (twice the power of the Ampeg) at the next rehearsal, but just messing around with it at home, it has a lot of extra foo foo going on. The 12AX7 tube inside is pure marketing horsesh|t and does nothing (confirmed by an amp tech/builder). One thing I do like and plan to test more is the use of the gain stage/compression - dare I say, it seems to get a little hairy-er than the Ampeg, and with the compression turned up past 2 or so it doesn't sound half bad.

One good thing about both is that they were made in the USA. Not 'designed' only.

 

[40Hz]

Don’t know if this helps, but I’ve got an SWR SM-400 and this:

THE Crown XLS-1002 is a Class-D amp with DSP features. Which, from a technical perspective, is about as different as it gets from an SM-400.

I use the Crown with a variety of preamps. Only the Alembic F1X is permanently racked with it. The other preamps are plugged in as my requirements or mood changes. Prior to getting the Crown I was running these preamps into the effects return on the SM-400.

I can’t really say there’s a significant difference in tone between the two power amps. They both sound really good to my ears. I wouldn’t worry about using either.

 

[Jefenator]

The Quilter BB800 blew my old LMII out of the water when I first got it. It really bridged the gap between that already-loud micro-head and my overkill pre+power rack. (Certainly has me questioning the need for the latter; maybe when I used to occasionally run 2.6 ohms.)
Then I A/B'd the Quilter against an all-tube head (Ampeg PF-50T) and that didn't go so well. (It is cool that amps are so small and light now, why not bring two just to swap out between sets & compare?) IMHO the PF-50T had a more "full" sound and a lot more "character". (This is on a quiet gig, mind you - when the drummer starts to hit hard, that 50 watt tube head would not keep up. That is certainly never an issue for me with the 800 watt Quilter.)
Coming from the SWR Baby Blue, you might not be looking for that all-tube "mojo". Just about anything out there now should be able to outgun what you had on raw power spec. Improving on the hi-fi vibe that old amp was known for might be tricky - but some makers seem to be really gunning for that high end solid state thing. (Alas, I only know the Bergantino & Trickfish heads by reputation.)

 

[SJan3]

I have a strong bias toward good Class A/B, but the better Class D amps are really, really good. I have personal experience with the Mark Bass LM II (as a head and in their 1-12 combo) (and this is small, but isn't really a class D amp, is it?), Puma 1000, Aguilar 500, Genz Benz 3.0, 6.2, 9.2, the Subway 800+, and just copped a used Trickfish Bullhead 1.0.

The Genz Benz stuff is quite good - I keep a 9.2 to run two 1-12 cabinets designed for the 6.2, and a 3.0-10T combo for personal practice and small things. Their biggest amp the 12.2 is also good (briefly had one, and wish I'd kept it), but too large for a gig bag. The Mesa Subway is better still - more depth and thickness than the GB, while less gooey than some of the other Class D stuff that presents girth in an artificial fashion, and doesn't seem to track left and right-hand nuance - it's like you get a fat good tone, but nuance is not getting through, particularly on the attack side of the envelope. Back to the Subway; the HPF control - and damping selection on the WD 800 - are really good tools. I maintain rigs in two locations, and was about to pull the trigger on a WD800, but instead popped for a used Trickfish 1.0. No gig experience as of yet and have only had it for a week, but it seems to get me the closest to the better Class A/B amps - fast, warm, clean, smart EQ points...and more slam than my 1-15 4-ohm cabinet can field - I will have to be careful. But it's 15" wide, so not likely meet your gig-bag requirement.

Net net - if you want small, and good sound, its the Mesa 800 or 800+, or an old Genz Benz. Have only played once through a Magellan - liked what I felt and heard, but not enough time with it to venture a real opinion - yet may well be worth your investigation.

As an owner of the Genzler Magellan 350, I feel that it is warmer and has more "give" than the previous Genz Benz shuttle 6.0 that I tried. I passed on the Shuttle, I purchased the Magellan and I'm very happy with it

 

[D.A.R.K.]

Interesting thread.
I’ve owned and gigged a plethora of class D based amplifiers. Mesa, Darkglass, Quilter, Crest, Crown, Genz, probably a few more.
Currently using a Mesa WD800 because it is a light weight, single unit solution to my favorite setup- tube preamp and SS power amp. The WD preamp is stellar for my tastes.
But what I’m really posting to mention is that many, if not most of these designs actually use the same ICE modules for their power sections. So, it’s worth looking at that aspect of the design, and finding out what is used. As I understand it, those modules are used in many applications, instrument amps to pa, and have a solid track record if implemented properly. Pick your preamp flavor, and go. This is where Quilter had my attention. They built their own power module, and it is sonically apparent. But the initial design compromised to get a price point that resulted in a higher level of self noise. Pat told me that himself. None of these amps I mention have the low level of self-noise I found in something like a Crown K2, in both performance and cooling (the K2 having no fan and being over built). But the trade off is worth ease of portability. I’m being picky with the noise issues, for most it is trivial but I often play ambient music so go figure. Anyway, reliability when the amps are largely designed around the same ICE module turns the attention to manufacturers implementation- the basic function of the power section itself is proven. So, the hope is your preferred “flavor” wether it is transparent or voiced is a manufacturer that has implemented the power section application (or the more rare design itself) appropriately. My .03

 

[two fingers]

Do yourself a favor and find a way to try the Mesa Subway series cabs with pretty much any of their recent head offerings. I'm partial to tue TT800, but it's what I own. Versatile doesn't even begin to describe it. It will do old school thumb and warmth or modern bright and zingy and all points in between (or even switch between the two!!!).

The Subway cabs are ridiculously loud for their size. The tone moves air with warmth yet maintains clarity. It's very hard to describe.

BUT, there are specific design elements you'll need to understand before you can reeeeeally dial one in. If you get to try one in person, whip out your phone and Google up the manual. The controls section of each manual is short, but explains everything. They're even written in a way that's entertaining to read.

Seriously, try a Mesa before buying.

 

[fauxtoe]

Mesa D800. 800 watts and 5 lbs. I actually find it a little humorous when it's hooked up to my 810 cab, but man oh man does it send some volume through it. I'm tempted to upgrade to the TT-800!

 

[rylie]

D amps with a tube pre-amp may be the best of both worlds
Fusion S Heads — Gallien-Krueger

 

[2112]

My roster of Class D amps:

• Trace Elliot ELF
• Crown XLS2502
• Crown XTi2002 x2
• Orange Terror Bass 1000
• Markbass F1

Used to gig Trace Elliot AH400SMX... love the tone. But I don't love the 60 lbs haul weight. I've gigged with the XTI's as a central PA and they do just fine. Reliable, lightweight, etc. All the others I've rehearsed with and would have no trouble hauling any of them to a gig. If I want to alter my tone beyond what the front panels offer I use my pedal board.

I like to characterize the move from big iron to Class D like cutting the cord from cable TV to streaming services:

• Yeah maybe I won't get to see the shows I've always seen on cable, but I'll find new shows to watch on stream and pay less money doing it. Are the shows on stream as good as those on cable? Not necessarily, but they're getting better. Freeing my mind has helped.
• Yeah, maybe I won't get to have the tone I've always had on big iron, but I'll find new tones to have on Class D and haul less weight doing it. Is the tone of Class D as good as that of big iron? Not necessarily, but it's getting better. Freeing my mind has helped.

 

[juancaminos]

At 66 years of age this interests me as well. However my WT-400 weighs 15lbs...thank you very much.
Still reading with keen interest though.

 

[scuzzy]

I have a Genz Benz shuttle max 12.0 and an orange terror bass 500. I have owned many other bass amps.

I can't say a bad thing about the GB. It's simply a fantastic amp, versatile, powerful, punchy, and can be modern or vintage voiced. I could use only it for the rest of my days and be content.

The orange is loud as hell, punchy, and raw. Not as versatile, but it's the closest to a tube feel outside of full tubes. Class d can be great, just buy the good ones.

 

[bertthebassist]

I use an Eich T900. It is one of the few small amps that fits into the side pocket of my gig bag, and can do a fat, deep Low B when I need it.
Most of the other small amps that can fit into my side pocket, do not have enough power or oomph.
There are a bunch of light heads that sound decent, but they didn't fit into the side pocket (I didn't want another bag to carry), and most of them do not do a Low B the way I like it.
IMO, the Eich T900 has the fullness which is closest to my Mesa M6 and my old Aguilar DB751, and it is only 4 lbs. It is also made in Germany and not China, which is important to me. (I wanted US made, but they didn't fit into my side pocket)
My single-trip carry is a gig bag with bass (8 1/2 lbs.), amp (4 lbs.), & cords, along with a 12" cab or two (30 lbs. each).

 

[IvanMike]

For reference, this is the rig. The Avalon U5 is obscured by the basses, and the SWR isn’t used except to bring to a practice.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I’m laughing as I write this because I used to be the co-moderator of this forum years ago and I may be breaking several of my rules for posting.

I haven’t followed recent events with the new ultra small ultralight ultra portable class D amplifier heads that have become quite popular lately. I’ve only been peripherally aware of them. However, I am interested in getting one for practices and smaller gigs. I’ve got no intention of replacing my main rig and I’m quite aware that it’s unfair to compare them directly against one another.

The portable head that it has to beat is an old SWR electric blue had which is 14” x 14” x 5” and tips the scale at 14 pounds. The rated wattage of that unit is 150 into four and 120 into eight.

A disclaimer about wattage: I’ve been around long enough and done enough A/B comparisons to know that there is the wattage that the manufacturer claims for their amplifier, and then there is what you actually experience. I’m less interested in what the amplifier says on the package, I’m a lot more interested in what you have actually experienced. Especially if you have put two or three or more of these little heads up against one another and found out which ones are actually louder than the others. I won’t bore you with the war stories but I have certainly seen “standard” amplifiers blow other “standard” amplifiers out of the water that were rated at four times the wattage. (I’m not going to mention that these might have been the old Trace Elliot amplifiers and the Aguilar DB 750). If one amp is significantly louder than another, let me know.

Tone itself is of course subjective. However I would be interested in your thoughts here as well, especially if you have had the opportunity to do direct comparisons.

otherwise, portability is certainly a factor, otherwise I would not be writing this. It seems like they are all the same ballpark in terms of weight being somewhere around 3 to 5 pounds give or take. I’m a little more interested in actual outside dimensions and if they fit in something like a gig bag. Being able to carry a gig bag and a small cabinet and be done with it is kind of a holy Grail.

in the future I might inquire about how the small and light cabinet scene is these days. I’m not about to give up my bag and cabinets, and anybody who has been around a long time those that I was quite a champion for them. However, despite being compact they are on the heavy side. I do miss my GS 112 but I know that there are quite a few cabinets that have popped up in the last 10 years or so.

Anyhow, let me know your experiences. How they stacked up to one another in terms of volume and tone. How well you’re able to fit it in a gig bag or something like that. If you experienced problems, what were they? If you picked one over the others after doing comparisons, why?

Just to be clear, if you have opinions without experience I’m really not interested in that. And comments that little class the amplifiers are no good or will never be as good as regular class A or class B amplifiers are exactly helpful either. Remember, I’m not looking to replace anything, just for another option. Edit: “class D amps are great” without letting me know which one you like and why isn’t super helpful either.

thanks a lot in advance ~ Ivan

First one I tried was the SWR go lite. Didn’t care for it and was immediately turned away from the class d thing for a while. And I was an SWR guy at the time having used a 750 for many years. The ampeg svt7 sounds decent. I mainly didnt buy one because they had so many complaints of failure for a while. Which is well documented right here on TB. Also there have been claims that the power rating is greatly exaggerated and that it’s really only a 500 power amp even though they claim 1000 watts. This was pointed out by Andy Irvine when he was working with Warwick. Evidently Warwick looked at several class d designs when they were designing their 1000w class d amp and found that ampeg did this. He talked about it in a namm video years back.

Best two class d amps I’ve personally played myself are the aguilar th500 and the Mesa Subway D-800. For me those two amps are very competitive with each other. Basically I chose the Mesa because of the deep switch and the oomph it adds. If it didn’t have that one feature I could have as easily gone with the aguilar. I never turn the deep switch off lol. The Mesa subway has served me well. Sounds good and it’s super flexable. Seems to be happy powering everything from a 115 to and 810. I also previously had a small rack bag setup with crown xls1500 class d power amp which I used with a couple Different pre amps mainly the Avalon u5 and the sans amp rbi. The amp was super light but the pre amps I was using added enough weight that the rack bag was always around the 30lbs range. Especially with the Avalon, the Avalon u5 is surprisingly weighty for its size

Overall I kind of look at class d amps just like any other type of technology. It didn’t sound that great and had its bugs when it first came out but by now it seems most companies have worked out the bugs. And I know for me I like the subway enough that I have no thoughts about going back to heavier gear.