Double Bass Sell DPA 4099B and get a Wilson K4?

[YTFC2010]

As the title suggests, I am considering selling my DPA to part-fund a Wilson.

I have scoured this forum, other forums, and various websites for reviews, and understand that different pickups and amplification systems produce different results depending on the bass itself, the other equipment, the venue etc, but talking in generics, I was hoping for some further advice, help, and recommendations before I go ahead and make the switch from the DPA to the Wilson.

Contrary to so many good reviews of the DPA 4099B that ultimately persuaded me to get one in the first place, I have really struggled with it in the six months I've been using it.

Despite experimenting with a multitude of positions and distances from the top of my bass, experimenting with all different input, gain, output, and master levels, in the end I struggle to get enough volume, even with my ART Tube MP V3 preamp. The mic just seems to pick up everything else around it, resulting in a muddy sound that feeds back at ease.

I have used it on both small and medium-large stages (good size coffee shops, to 500 capacity theatres), and in situations where I've had the other band members less than a metre away from me, crammed on stage, as well as gigs where I've sometimes been 8 metres or so from the guitarist - Still however, I seem to get poor results.

I currently use a Westbury bass with my DPA going into an ART Tube MP V3, then always to FOH. I have also experimented with both in-ear monitoring, and floor monitors.
I mainly play country and folk, with hints of folk rock every now and again which is a bit louder in volume. Nothing too crazy loud though.

The past couple of months I have been working with a very well renowned sound engineer in my area of England, and he is shocked by the DPA's performance. We have spent a lot of time together experimenting with the DPA, often before gigs on an empty stage (although we understand things do change slightly when all the other musicians are on stage). We've been desperately trying to get the best out of the DPA, but he has really struggled.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this with the DPA, and/or are there any recommendations, tips, or words of advice anyone can give?

My bridge doesn't have adjusters, so although I've read good things about the Full Circle, I'm not sure about switching to one of these.

I have read mixed reviews about the Wilson, but it sounds like the way to go if decent volume without feedback is required, although I have read contradicting reviews re its sound. Some say it sounds real and acoustic, whilst others say it sounds very 'electric'?
I guess the only way to really find out is to bite the bullet, purchase one, get it installed, and see how it sounds. As with anything to do with our beautiful instruments though, as we all know, that becomes a mighty expensive experiment!

Any help or experience would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

 

[Kaspar Vadsholt]

The DPA is difficult. I use it to send it to the PA along with my Full circle. Sometimes the soundman doesn't use it at all, if the music's real loud. But it's a nice option for ballads and solos.
IMHO the Wilson and DPA are opposite sides of the spectrum. The Wilson is great for loud music: very precise and clear and easy to use, but the sound is somewhat electric. A nice compromise is the Full Circle or the Realist.

 

[sas]

I find the DPA superb with good preamplification, straight into the house board, although you will have to juggle with monitoring. Obviously, for high-volume gigs it's not the ticket.

Here's a thing about the Wilson K4 though: you can achieve a much more acoustic sound if you adjust all elements so as to match the one with the *poorest* output (turning them clockwise or counter-clockwise), rather than going for the hottest output per string. It amounts to a "scaling down" of the overall level, at which point I have fooled people into thinking I had an additional mic connected.

 

[CBFinet]

I've had great luck with the Wilson in the past. It's a very direct sound and can be natural sounding especially if you adjust the eq properly. That being said, it's not what works best on my current bass. I think it works better on darker sounding instruments. It's got to be the best pickup for feedback resistance...

Not meaning to make a sales pitch here but I listed one of my Wilson pickups (I have 2 ) for sale a while back. Let me know if you're interested as it would save a ton compared to the new price.

Good luck with the pickup search. It can be like opening Pandora's box!

 

[Ric Vice]

If you commit to using the four element Wilson, you have to accept the fact that you are going to have four holes tapped into the front of your bridge, and that occasionally they don't seat properly and have to be re-tapped. Wilson also makes a single element pickup that's less invasive to your bridge. This is not something I would choose to do to my bridge, based on the tonal qualities of the Wilson, but the decision is entirely up to you. IMHO there are better options for my bass and amps, but that may not work for you. If you decide to get the pickup, do yourself a favor and have a luthier, who has experience with them, install it on your instrument.

Ric

 

[Adagio]

Given your situation, you could as well keep the DPA and buy a less expensive piezo that mounts on bridges w/o adjusters (there is always one on the classified). I guess that blending the DPA with a Realist or a Rev Solo would yield great results. On the other hand, the Wilson by itself is also a great option if you play loud stages, you can hear this PU on many NHOP live records. If you choose this option I'm sure Mr. Finet will offer you the best deal you'll ever find; I know because I almost bought it from him some time ago. Great guy to do business with.

 

[Barcza]

With the 4099 you can get higher gain before feedback, than any other condenser mic on the market. It works most of the situation, in normal jazz band volume, with high quality PA systems and decent room. Very important, the 4099 is a hypercardoid mic, so the monitor is must placed at your side instead of your front to avoid feedback. If the sound engineer notch filtering the peak frequency of the bass, on a digital mixer ( they has more flexible eq, than on analogue desk ), you can get pretty big volume without feedback. Many time I use the mic, only to the front and I use piezzo to the amp as a monitor, this is works 99% of the situation. If you choose your pickup/mic you allways have to find the best for you on a scale beetwen volume and natural sound.

This is my scale:

Condenser mic ( most natural sound easily feedbacking )------dynamic mic--contact mic ( Like Ehrlund )-----piezzo close to body (FC,Realist)----piezzo close to strings (Wilson, BP-100)---- magnetic pickup ( challenge to get feedback, bass guitar sound)
.

 

[ibass4u]

Ric, do you think that drilling holes alters the sound of the bridge, and by how much?

 

[Ric Vice]

Ric, do you think that drilling holes alters the sound of the bridge, and by how much?

I'm probably not the one you should consult about this, because I'm not a luthier. I do know at least two players in St. Louis, who tried to install it themselves, and had to re-tap the bridge a second time, because the sound coming off the pickup was unacceptable.

Personally, I'm not willing to do that rather invasive installation, when there are other pickups out there that sound far better. Fortunately, I don't have to play the DB at volume levels that would require it. I have a Clevenger EUB to handle those types of situations.


Ric