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Separating the art from the artist

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#41
I agree with you on most of what you said. If I based all of my listening criteria off politics for instance, there would be very little that I would listen to (outright stated and otherwise).
It's one of the reasons I listen to a lot of instrumental music (thats mostly for other reasons actually). This goes for music, movies (especially movies)... sometimes even stores I shop. It's ridiculous that we live in a world where everyone feels like their's is the only and opinion, to the point of the division and hate. But hey, the media and the politicians thrive on this and count on it to have a job. Go figure?

I have a line I don't cross - most of the time though I can look past the the nonsense. But agree.... sometimes, especially with musicians and actors.... it can get trying. They forget who they really work for and who ultimately gave them their careers. Not all of those people may share their mindsets.
 
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#45
Getting back to separating art from the artist, I know of several artists whose opinions I don’t agree with, but I still love their music, and most of it was created before they became vocal about the issues that I don’t agree with. I listen to their music as I always have, and ignore their opinions that I don’t agree with. I probably wouldn’t buy a ticket to their show, or download their music for a fee, but I probably wouldn’t do that anyway. I draw the line at hate speech. I have no use for it, I won’t listen to it, and I won’t support it with my money.
 
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#46
bmusic said:
Yeah, kind of an adjacent thought, but I was taught in school that living in a representative democracy means we all participate in the political process—even "shutting up and singing" is a mode of participation. So being informed and voicing your opinions (whether verbally or simply in the voting booth) is kind of a responsibility, whether you're a pop star, a football player, a plumber or a fry cook.

But yes, it can affect my response to them. That's part if the deal.
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Yeah, you kind of misconstrued the point. Singing/vocalizing one's beliefs is not the issue. Yes, everyone should be able to voice their beliefs whether in song or in speech. The issue is being told to 'shut up and sing' as a means of saying 'don't voice your opinions which go against the establishment - just entertain us, or we'll destroy your career if you continue to express your beliefs.' That's the 'shut up and sing' that is dangerous.
 
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#47
bigdaddybass12 said:
I heard a financial guy say that when an artist or performer talks about his political position he or she loses 1/2 of their audience and record buyers.
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And in many cases, the artist doesn't care. In fact, it may actually boost an artist's support artistically and financially. I find it refreshing when an artist says 'you don't have to announce your departure.'
 
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#49
JazznFunk said:
Yeah, you kind of misconstrued the point. Singing/vocalizing one's beliefs is not the issue. Yes, everyone should be able to voice their beliefs whether in song or in speech. The issue is being told to 'shut up and sing' as a means of saying 'don't voice your opinions which go against the establishment - just entertain us, or we'll destroy your career if you continue to express your beliefs.' That's the 'shut up and sing' that is dangerous.
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If their free expression alienates enough people to destroy their career, that is of their own doing. It's a pretty entitled and naive attitude to think what you say in public shouldn't affect your livelihood. .
 
#51
For me, it's more.a case of where and for whom to play, the context rather than the song or performer. Way back when, my old Zydeco band got a few what looked like decent gigs through a (to us) new promotor. The gigs turned from being a little weird, to tied to extreme right wing causes, so we didn't work with that guy anymore . I later learned through the grapevine (pre internet) that he had legal issues because of selling VHS tapes with porn with minors. So good riddance.
 
#52
I also remember the Dixie Chicks backlash. I remember a local radio DJ ripping them on air, then going to break using Rock and Roll part 2 by Gary Glitter as bumper music. I guess playing a convicted pedophile's music was OK, but not music by folks who criticized the president.

Onstage banter, political or not, needs to be kept to a minimum to keep me entertained with very few exceptions (Todd Snider for instance). As for personal failings, Miles Davis was a jerk, but his music really moves me. I don't have a hard and fast rule.
 
#54
Fynn said:
If I knew why exactly that hits me so hard, I would probably have figured out a way to deal with it by now.
I feel like a big part of it is the over politicization of social media. Recently Instagram came out with a feature to allow users to restrict political content from showing up on your feed. I immediately turned that on. I feel like I get confronted so much with this stuff in my day to day life, that it's just a shower of negativity, because even when I agree with the things, I know that there are people who don't. And unless it's an actual constructive discussion, it's usually just polirization, especially on social media. That's why I choose the door to door salesman analogy. I'm not looking for that stuff, but it just finds it's way into my life.

I think there is a certain threshhold of how much negativity someone can experience in their life, even when it's just indirectly, before it becomes too much to bear. Other examples might be doctors and nurses who become depressed, despite doing a good job and being a net positive. Or journalists who encounter a lot of tragic situations.
Of course someones passing isn't the same as someone being emotional about politics, but the bucket can still be filled, even if it's only small droplets over a long long time. I would assume at some point in the past couple years my bucket just filled up and I didn't have a chance to take a break from all of that stuff.
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That is a fair response. Good enough. Snd thanks for sharing. I’m sure that wasn’t easy, and I appreciate that.
 
#55
I think of politics as differences of opinon over infrastructure spending, or tax appropriation, or foreign policy.
But then there's here's a whole bunch of people who are subhuman and should be exterminated. Doesn't really matter who those people are or why they're being demonized. That's not politics (although it may be being used to a political end).

So, not the former, but artists allying themselves with the latter get a short shift from me.

And yeah, Gary Glitter
tenor.gif


(But it's funny we all give Jimmy Page and Charlie Chaplin a pass ... why is that?)
 
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#56
Fynn said:
Something that I've found to be more or less difficult, but always be on my mind, in my time enjoying music, is trying to separate the art from the artist. There is a lot that can be said about this, and the reality is, the world ISN'T black and white. It's endless amounts of shades of gray. Nobody is ultimately evil, and nobody is ultimately good. Once I realized that, I came to the conclusion that when I like a piece of music, I shouldn't care who it came from. But that isn't always so easy.
When I'm thinking about this, or when I encounter this issue, it's usually because of politics. Politics of course aren't straight forward, and I would say nobody has the perfect answer. It's all about finding the best compromise.
Knowing that, I get very annoyed when people put politics into media that isn't inherently meant to portray politics. Whether I agree with the given position, or I don't, I don't feel good about artists who suddenly, seemingly randomly, get political. It always leaves a sour aftertaste for me. In a way it feels like those door to door salesmen, where you just go about your day and suddenly somone confronts you with something that you didn't think about, or don't even care for at all.
Even when an artist is spouting out a message that I wholeheartedly agree with, it makes me feel sick. How confident do you have to be in your own opinions to be fine with potentially influencing millions of people?

There have been many musicians, and sometimes even whole bands, that I have had a bad feeling about because of a statement they made. I try my best to see past that, and enjoy the music, but it just doesn't work that easily. I'm not gonna name specific artists, but I can think of at least 4 that I have stopped listening to for a while, because I couldn't get myself to stop thinking about them getting super political at some point. And only one of them can really be considered somewhat punk...


I doubt there is anything that people can tell me to help with this issue, but if you have a method, or a thought that might help, I would really appreciate the input!




PS:
I know I'm mentioning politics, but this really isn't meant as a political discussion of course. I hope this is still within the boundaries of the Talkbass rules!
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That's why my wife and I don't watch the news or commercial television: it's like having a huge pipe dumping raw sewage into our living room.
 
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#57
Some of us by our racial and other identities do get affected directly by this free speech. If I think it will affect me when the status quo reverts to the oppressive times, I just stop listening and just cancel them personally - no matter if that art was important for me. Overall, I found out that with the exception of one, and that's even debatable that they were seminal to me, the artists that influenced me actually have the same views as mine - so all good. Some did suffer or die from substance abuse but that's not a needle that I look at.
 
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