Separating the art from the artist

[BuddhaFingas]

Over an artist's "personal/political views," no. Not gonna get offended just because I disagree, even if I profoundly disagree. Put on my big boy pants in that regard a long time ago. Takes all kinds, etc.

Criminality and victimization of others, or promotion of same, on the other hand, that can be a hard "no thank you."

But then, so can just having a crummy voice, a crap personality that drowns out the talent, insipid lyrics, a style I just don't enjoy, or demanding that I have to agree or conform to their feelz.

Free to associate, free to dissociate. All part of adulting.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Either you have convictions or you don't. There's no middle ground.

I gave up a 20 year career to stand with my people in the streets against fascism. I'd rather work a day gig than stand on stage next to someone who even slightly supports fascists and bigots. I'll throw a brick before I play one note for those guys.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I work with many musicians with whom I don't agree with on various issues but guess what- we aren't defined buy our politics or the things that divide us. Music unites us. That being said, I fear suppression of the arts will be a problem in the very near future.

 

[john_g]

I try not to let it bother me as long as its not abusive, illegal, etc. I mean, I dont agree with my wife over everything, including politics, so im not expecting it from anyone else. And, me personally, have views of things that are all over the place so Im never squarely on one side anyway.

 

[Norm Nelson]

It's a problem we're going to face more and more, as it becomes less possible for anyone (good or bad) to hide their crappy behavior from the world. I find I am less able to separate things as I get older. There are enough great artists out there who don't do s*itty things, we don't have to support the ones who do. Don't feel bad about learning something awful about someone you formerly supported, but if you're not endorsing their behavior you don't have to support them or their art.

 

[InhumanResource]

My question is how did you become so sensitive? Why would anybody need to be “offended” with what somebody says about something that has no meaning to them?

In the USA there is a constitutional guarantee of free speech. There is no constitutional guarantees to prevent one from being offended by somebody stating an opinion or topic of discussion. Me? I’m not about to waste my emotional bandwidth when somebody is a speaking nonsense or is just being a jack wagon. It’s best to ignore it. An @ss is an @ss and there is no need to get upset about it.

The word offended didn’t occur in the post you quoted. What do you mean?

 

[FilterFunk]

If an artist were to go so far as to say with conviction something like "Hitler was right!" or "Let's bring back Jim Crow!", it's over. They won't get a dime or a listen from me. Even if Stevie Wonder were to say such things and mean it, I'd be done with him...well, assuming these were his actual convictions being of sound mind, because my first thought would be that he'd lost his mind!

I firmly believe in drawing some indelible lines that will not be crossed. But these are personal lines; I'm not telling anyone else what to do, and I'm certainly not trying to get any laws passed. But I'm darn sure not letting anybody pressure me into abandoning my convictions, either.

 

[InhumanResource]

Something that I've found to be more or less difficult, but always be on my mind, in my time enjoying music, is trying to separate the art from the artist. There is a lot that can be said about this, and the reality is, the world ISN'T black and white. It's endless amounts of shades of gray. Nobody is ultimately evil, and nobody is ultimately good. Once I realized that, I came to the conclusion that when I like a piece of music, I shouldn't care who it came from. But that isn't always so easy.
When I'm thinking about this, or when I encounter this issue, it's usually because of politics. Politics of course aren't straight forward, and I would say nobody has the perfect answer. It's all about finding the best compromise.
Knowing that, I get very annoyed when people put politics into media that isn't inherently meant to portray politics. Whether I agree with the given position, or I don't, I don't feel good about artists who suddenly, seemingly randomly, get political. It always leaves a sour aftertaste for me. In a way it feels like those door to door salesmen, where you just go about your day and suddenly somone confronts you with something that you didn't think about, or don't even care for at all.
Even when an artist is spouting out a message that I wholeheartedly agree with, it makes me feel sick. How confident do you have to be in your own opinions to be fine with potentially influencing millions of people?

There have been many musicians, and sometimes even whole bands, that I have had a bad feeling about because of a statement they made. I try my best to see past that, and enjoy the music, but it just doesn't work that easily. I'm not gonna name specific artists, but I can think of at least 4 that I have stopped listening to for a while, because I couldn't get myself to stop thinking about them getting super political at some point. And only one of them can really be considered somewhat punk...


I doubt there is anything that people can tell me to help with this issue, but if you have a method, or a thought that might help, I would really appreciate the input!




PS:
I know I'm mentioning politics, but this really isn't meant as a political discussion of course. I hope this is still within the boundaries of the Talkbass rules!

I think it’s not only ok but important when artists get political. There are important issues that need airtime, and there are totally unimportant issues that are getting waaay too much airtime.

Discourse is important. If we can’t discuss the things that matter, or the things that inspire these artists, we’re in for a tough time. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect artists to just have an anodyne, middle of the road existence and just dance for our pleasure then go away. I think it’s not only but important to have a message and use your platform to share that message.

Having said that, I can see feeling strongly about certain things and finding out that a favorite artist is completely opposed to your own opinion on a given matter. And it can be hard to ignore that aspect of an artist you otherwise enjoy, I think that’s pretty natural. But I don’t think it is reasonable to expect artists to just not say anything about their politics or any other issues they wish to give visibility to.

 

[J Wilson]

I learned long ago that artists (incl musicians) can often have some really 'outside' views and opinions, and I try to chalk it off that often the gifted can be pretty clueless when it comes to real life.

As I grew old enough to be put in drydock for removing barnacles, I learned that I often no longer had the patience to ignore what I used to think were foibles and see them as serious, even sometimes criminal or deadly disfunctional behavior. Music is full of dead people, dead by their own hand due to living the life.

I'm not a gossip hound, and generally I look at it the way I look at sausage: If I knew how they made it I wouldn't eat it. People are people, and the musicians I listen to are all fraught with the same foibles as me, but in their case, treated with bushels of money, no one to tell them NO, and huge egos, bad things will happen.

So like most things I stay away from as depressing or just flat wrong, I have people I can't listen to any more for my own reasons, and I have no inclination to name names and point fingers from here in The Glass House. Coulda been me . . .

 

[richntiff]

For me, if an artist, or business, or other entity that is seeking my money sees fit to display their political leanings, I’m all for it. I like the transparency. If they espouse a belief I do not agree with, and it happens to be an issue that impacts me, my loved ones, or disadvantaged people of any sort, then I’m simply cutting them off from my money. There is no gray area. Really quite simple. I refuse to find ways to be apologist for their actions, and I will not support them in in any way shape or form. Far too many people treat things like this as if it’s an intellectual exercise with no real world consequences.

 

[Micha84]

I believe that the very foundation of a functioning democracy is the ability to talk to each other about politics, and to respect and tolerate different points of view. We are drifting more and more into a political culture where somebody with a different point of view is treated as an enemy rather than another member of our society who, very likely, also has everybody's best interest at heart and just disagrees with me about how to achieve it. I am saying this as a German, by the way, who is worried about this development not only in the US, but in Germany and large parts of Europe as well.

So no, I do not have a problem with somebody voicing a political opinion, as long as it truly is political and comes from a place of good will. Ultimately however (and again, saying this as a German looking at Germany) it has become more and more common to sell messages of hate and discrimination as political, which they aren't. That is where I can't separate art from the artist anymore. You can disagree with me about taxation, economic regulations and educational systems, I'll have a beer with you and rock out to your songs, no problem. But if you insult and actually try to harm my friends and family, that is something that I can't just overlook.

 

[Fynn]

I learned long ago that artists (incl musicians) can often have some really 'outside' views and opinions, and I try to chalk it off that often the gifted can be pretty clueless when it comes to real life.

As I grew old enough to be put in drydock for removing barnacles, I learned that I often no longer had the patience to ignore what I used to think were foibles and see them as serious, even sometimes criminal or deadly disfunctional behavior. Music is full of dead people, dead by their own hand due to living the life.

I'm not a gossip hound, and generally I look at it the way I look at sausage: If I knew how they made it I wouldn't eat it. People are people, and the musicians I listen to are all fraught with the same foibles as me, but in their case, treated with bushels of money, no one to tell them NO, and huge egos, bad things will happen.

So like most things I stay away from as depressing or just flat wrong, I have people I can't listen to any more for my own reasons, and I have inclination to name names and point fingers from here in The Glass House. Coulda been me . . .

I love the sausage analogy.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've tried..... but I can't do it. Knowing that the artist in question was (or still is) a despicable human being inevitably colors my perception of the art. Any artist is entitled, as is is any human being, to express their views publicly, but if what you choose to say is hateful crap, it's going to have consequences.

 

[KenSmithFan]

There is more great music out there than you can listen to in a lifetime. If you're not feeling a song, album, group or whatever, move on the the next one. As they say on the internet, this isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure.

 

[FugaziBomb]

My drummer voted for Kamala, my guitarists both voted for Trump, and I voted for Kanye, but we all get along.

 

[bmusic]

The way I see THIS particular bucket 'o fish is that artists are citizens and pay taxes and have the same rights as anyone else - artists are free to say and do what they want on stage. If you know where an artist stands and don't want to hear them speak on it if they have a history of being vocal at their shows about certain things..... you as a consumer have a right not to attend the show or buy the music. But they have every right to conduct themselves as they see fit within the bounds of the law and the right to free speech. The 'shut up and sing' cancel culture movement toward artists is quite honestly a product of the last quarter century, and it needs to wither away, IMO.

Yeah, kind of an adjacent thought, but I was taught in school that living in a representative democracy means we all participate in the political process—even "shutting up and singing" is a mode of participation. So being informed and voicing your opinions (whether verbally or simply in the voting booth) is kind of a responsibility, whether you're a pop star, a football player, a plumber or a fry cook.

But yes, it can affect my response to them. That's part if the deal.

 

[Neil Folkard]

I know of people who refuse to watch Roman Polanski movies, due to charges of rape that he never served time for, since he left the country. I watch them because movies are made by a whole lot of people, not just the director. So I'm not going to boycott a whole body of work with his name on it, when so many people contributed to the final product.

 

[bmusic]

My drummer voted for Kamala, my guitarists both voted for Trump, and I voted for Kanye, but we all get along.

ALL of that tracks

 

[Winton]

My drummer voted for Kamala, my guitarists both voted for Trump, and I voted for Kanye, but we all get along.

You didn’t vote for carrots!?

 

[bigdaddybass12]

I heard a financial guy say that when an artist or performer talks about his political position he or she loses 1/2 of their audience and record buyers.