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Seriously, is there anything a Precision Bass Can't do?

#321
BillMason said:
I don't disagree but the reason why P players say this is because so many non-P players talk about how non-versatile the P bass is. How it has no low end and therefore shouldn't have been used live by Dave Holland, etc. How they sold their P bass and bought a Jazz because the P just wasn't versatile enough, because it only has one pickup and passive electronics. I've heard it all, and the situation you described with a hypothetical trumpet player actually fit the P bass analogy really well: one simple horn, many styles. The reason you don't hear trumpet players go on about it is because no one is bitching about how their trumpet only has three keys and no pickups, and no one is telling trumpet players that their horn sucks because it only has three keys and no pickups.

However, *every* instrument has gear sluts... Even the trumpet. And every instrument has gear snobs - On TB I've seen SX players poo-poo everything from Jay Turser basses to Sadowsky's, so the snobbery is by no means limited to the boutique bandwagon or the Fender bandwagon or the Precision bandwagon Jazz bandwagon or the Lakland bandwagon. Extended range versus what Jaco used. Relic versus pristine. Vintage versus brand new. When we talk strings, we get the same BS between flats and rounds, and when we talk amps we get the same BS between tubes/solid state/hybrid/class D, weight, Ampeg, Markbass, GK, Fearful, combos of doom/810s, ad nauseum.

I got sick of this on TB and stopped being a supporting member. Then I stopped reading for many months. I peeked back a couple of weeks ago out of curiosity, and it's the same BS.

My Fender P is awesome. It's the sixth or seventh one I've owned, and I love it. I've also owned a couple of Jazz basses, Squiers, MIM, etc. and played a Peavey Patriot almost exclusively for 22 years. I've played many others. I've owned several Traynors, Peaveys, a GK, a couple of Markbass amps and gigged many others including Fender, Ampeg, and straight to the board. I've played rounds, then flats, then rounds, then flats, then rounds on some basses and flats on others and am currently flats on my only two remaining basses. I've boosted bass, boosted mids, gone flat, dialed in contour and presence and dialed it out. Wanna know a secret? Outside of the small musician subculture, all of the differences are moot because NOBODY CARES!! To any non-musician (except spouses and girlfriends) they ALL SOUND THE SAME! And even to many musicians! Including bass players!! Get over it!

Where's the Tylenol???
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#325
adivin said:
You're right, let's shut the forum down and all go away. Nothing matters.
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No, that's not what I'm saying. I love reading about people's experiences with their gear, and trying new things. I play for my own enjoyment first and foremost, and need to like what I hear and play. I'm definitely a snob when it comes to tone, mine or other people's, but I draw the line between tone that makes me feel good and tone that makes me cringe, NOT between tone that comes from this kind of gear and tone that comes from that kind of gear.

Giving a $hit about how you sound and what you use to sound that way is one of the indicators that separates talent from no-talent. Not the gear you use, but caring about what gear you use.

Thank God there's variety! I can't imagine lambasting someone over their gear choice the way I see people do it here. *That's* what I have a problem with.

If you don't like Precisions, why respond to a thread like this, except to troll? The title reeks of a thread *for* P lovers.

I have no doubt that if someone started a thread about what J basses can't do, several posts would be from P players saying "it can't sound like a P." They'd be right, but not right to do so. And I suspect it'd probably devolve into a Fender bashing thread, with all the Lakland and Sadowsky lovers saying they love their J bass too, but just can't play Fenders because bass has evolved past what Leo did in 1962, and it's time to move on, and all you passive Fender J players are stuck in the past, etc etc.

Hell, give me one of every bass made, and I'd be a happy man in my basement for a few weeks playing with them all. Lots of tones are a good thing for sure. But come on... It's clearly baloney to suggest that any one of them would totally suck in any given style of music or situation. Kind of like saying a Strat would suck in any given style or situation. Versatile, creative, fluid players can play anything, anywhere, anytime and make it sound good. After you pass a certain line of build quality and design, they're all good, just different.

I can only realistically own one *good* gig-worthy bass and amp. I can't see how making this choice is a bad one when it's the same choice made by the likes of Andy Hess, Roger Waters, James Jamerson, Geezer Butler, Bazil Donovan, Willie Weeks, Rocco Prestia, etc etc etc. The guys I most enjoy listening to, the bass sounds I most enjoy hearing. Regardless of who else plays them, I don't see how making a choice that *I* like is a bad thing at all, or limiting myself in anyway. I also don't see how it threatens anyone else. And if someone posts a thread saying how unlimited the P bass is, my answer is "Amen brother!"

It's not religion - you're not going to Hell because you don't play a P bass, no one is saying that. But if you're gonna post in a thread like this, what profit is gained by telling someone how limiting their choice has been? How you've chosen otherwise? Isn't it *kind of* like walking into a church and snickering everytime someone mentions transubstantiation, or snickering at Buddhist's belief in atheistic reincarnation? They're there because they love it; you don't, that's fine, so move along. You can't convert anyone.
 
#328
I might also add that I played that Peavey Patriot in jazz combos with round wound strings, and also with a country band that was gigging, and in various metal bands, and gigging Celtic, classic rock, country rock, etc. Back in the Jazz days a classmate told me I should install a bridge pickup. I couldn't afford it and also thought that before doing that, it'd make more sense to just buy a bass with a bridge pickup, but why do I need one? Many years later, he's a Facebook friend and he's picked up a '64 P bass, an extolling it's virtues on Facebook. I asked him if he remembered telling me to install a bridge pickup in my Peavey way back when, and he couldn't believe he'd have said that, but commented that it's possible because back then he was all about boutique six strings, whereas now he just likes good tone. :-) He's also one I the most talented bass players I've ever known.
 
#330
Good stuff, Bill, agreed 100%. If I find a bass that "speaks" to me (and I can afford it!) I'll get it, use it, and enjoy it. I don't give a crap about what anyone else thinks about it. I love the simplicity and versatility (yes, you heard me!) of the P-bass, but that doesn't mean I would turn my nose up at any boutique bass if it caught my fancy. SX, Squier, Fender, Sadowsky, Fodera, whatever. A bass I like is a good bass, period. They ALL work, they ALL do what they are supposed to do. Anyone who has a problem with others' gear choices and takes pains to make sure everybody knows it in a thread that is, as you say, very obvioulsy a fan thread, is a very silly person and a troll, indeed.
 
#332
I finally took my J/P/J to practice so that I could play it through my rig (Xwire>Bassbone>Eden World Tour>2 410 SWR Goliath IIIs). It has Lollar Js & a MIM P, wired VVV, 2 output jacks (one for Js, one for P). Since it has no tone knob, I played it through channel 2 of the Bassbone which has a 3 band EQ. It is sporting new Sunbeams.

This is a 3 piece Classic Rock band, we're all in our 50's and have been playing & gigging for 30+ years. I've played with the drummer for nearly 20 years. I showed them the bass, we talked about the 3 PUP layout and then proceeded to practice.

I really liked the J neck PUP, didn't care for the P tone (and I"m a P fan). Played the bridge J with some neck for the "White Wedding" tone, Neck J with some bridge for everything else. The bottom line is I wasn't real happy with the sound and plan to try flats and install a tone knob.

After practice, I asked them how it sounded, they said it sounded good. I asked if they could tell I played the Jazz PUPs all night (except for one song), instead of the P PUP. They said no, it sounded good. I asked how it compared to my Ps (either a Roadworn or a CS NOS '59).They said I always sound good and they couldn't really hear a difference.

I guess I should have just used the TI strung Zon 519 5er I have there for the 6 standard tuned songs (we tune down 1/2 step for my aging voice).

The bottom line is we obsess about tone for ourselves, no one else cares about P VS J versus boutique VS flats VS rounds VS passive VS active. Mr Bill is spot on!
 
#333
Well said, Bill. Like you, I can only afford one good bass and amp and I chose a Godin Shifter because I wanted to have some good versatility. I can do a P bass and a J bass and even get it to sound like a Stingray depending on what pickup selection I choose. But even with the Shifter, there are tones I can't get.

I guess this kind of post leaves me scratching my head in confusion because to me, when someone asks if a P bass can do it all, my immediate thought is "Who cares" I mean, does it have to? And if it doesn't, get a second bass or switch to a bass that gives you the tone your looking for. Pretty simple to me.
 
#334
Or is the point that all this gear-slutdom is a waste of time. If 99% of music can be satisfied by a P then it doesn't mean you have to have a P, it just means all the GAS and ownership of lots of basses is unnecessary and we're kidding ourselves if we think it is.

As a further factor, there's plenty of pros who just play one or two basses.

Davo
 
#335
Rocky said:
There is one thing my P bass can not do..
It can not make me sound like anyone but me.
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I haven't read all 17 pages of this thread, so I'm glad I stumbled upon this succinct observation on the last page.

But I will offer a corrollary (that perhaps someone's already mentioned) ...in addition to not being able to make me sound like not me, a P Bass can't easily make me sound not like me playing a P Bass.

Or, with slightly fewer double-negatives: a P Bass can't not sound like a P Bass.

Which isn't the same as saying all P Basses sound the same. Just that they all share a similar characteristic.
 
#336
Davo-London said:
Or is the point that all this gear-slutdom is a waste of time. If 99% of music can be satisfied by a P then it doesn't mean you have to have a P, it just means all the GAS and ownership of lots of basses is unnecessary and we're kidding ourselves if we think it is.

As a further factor, there's plenty of pros who just play one or two basses.

Davo
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+ a million to both points. Once that is truly accepted GAS disappears and you can get on with just playing...
 
#337
Davo-London said:
Or is the point that all this gear-slutdom is a waste of time. If 99% of music can be satisfied by a P then it doesn't mean you have to have a P, it just means all the GAS and ownership of lots of basses is unnecessary and we're kidding ourselves if we think it is.

As a further factor, there's plenty of pros who just play one or two basses.

Davo
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+1, it's a total waste of time. :)

I think when we set that unreasonable wanting aside and just commit to being happy in our own skin with the gear we have, that's an opportunity for us to grow as musicians. But I'm not speaking self-righteously, believe me - I desperately want a particular black P bass at the local store (so light and well-balanced!), and an SVT. I have no real use for either of these things, and the money they'd cost would put braces on both of my kids - if I had it!
 
#338
Tonally, the P-bass is less versatile. I think jazz bass players are right in that, but it doesn't meant the P-bass doesn't work just fine in a variety of styles. I think it's pointless for jazz players to feel like they have to slam precision players, but it's just as pointless to argue against them.

What's that old saying? Never argue with an idiot because they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. :D The simpler things in life are often times the best, and the P bass certainly follows that rule IMHO. I've never had a gig where one didn't work with flying colors. I
 
#339
Eublet said:
Tonally, the P-bass is less versatile. I think jazz bass players are right in that, but it doesn't meant the P-bass doesn't work just fine in a variety of styles. I think it's pointless for jazz players to feel like they have to slam precision players, but it's just as pointless to argue against them.

What's that old saying? Never argue with an idiot because they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. :D The simpler things in life are often times the best, and the P bass certainly follows that rule IMHO. I've never had a gig where one didn't work with flying colors. I
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I don't think versatile is the right word here. If it works in most/all situations, how can it not be equally as versatile? If a Jazz also can't sound like a P, doesn't that make it equally un-versatile by this definition?

I don't know what the right word is, but it ain't versatile.
 
#340
BillMason said:
Hell, give me one of every bass made, and I'd be a happy man in my basement for a few weeks playing with them all. Lots of tones are a good thing for sure. But come on... It's clearly baloney to suggest that any one of them would totally suck in any given style of music or situation. Kind of like saying a Strat would suck in any given style or situation. Versatile, creative, fluid players can play anything, anywhere, anytime and make it sound good. After you pass a certain line of build quality and design, they're all good, just different.

I can only realistically own one *good* gig-worthy bass and amp. I can't see how making this choice is a bad one when it's the same choice made by the likes of Andy Hess, Roger Waters, James Jamerson, Geezer Butler, Bazil Donovan, Willie Weeks, Rocco Prestia, etc etc etc. The guys I most enjoy listening to, the bass sounds I most enjoy hearing. Regardless of who else plays them, I don't see how making a choice that *I* like is a bad thing at all, or limiting myself in anyway. I also don't see how it threatens anyone else. And if someone posts a thread saying how unlimited the P bass is, my answer is "Amen brother!"

It's not religion - you're not going to Hell because you don't play a P bass, no one is saying that. But if you're gonna post in a thread like this, what profit is gained by telling someone how limiting their choice has been? How you've chosen otherwise? Isn't it *kind of* like walking into a church and snickering everytime someone mentions transubstantiation, or snickering at Buddhist's belief in atheistic reincarnation? They're there because they love it; you don't, that's fine, so move along. You can't convert anyone.
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Obviously, you've made a lot of loud noise here which somehow seems to have attracted a number of fans. But logical cogent thought seems to be lacking. You make a bold statement in one sentence and then directly contradict it in the next! I'm not impressed.

Sorry, a Strat DOES suck in many situations. If I'm playing something for my 12 string acoustic a Strat just ain't gonna cut it. IF I were forced to play a Strat in that situation, I know EXACTLY what I'd have to do to make it work. I'd have to totally change the STYLE OF THE MUSIC to fit the Strat if I couldn't change the guitar to fit the music! Been there. Done that. Same thing goes for bass. And oddly you make exactly the same point without saying so explicitly, by saying that a good player "can make a Strat sound good". But you are simply logically chasing your own tail. The question was can a Strat fit ALL situations, NOT can a good player always change the music to fit a Strat. Boo.

So does a P-bass do chords like my 7 string basses? Who are you kidding? Does my P-bass sound as "modern" as my Modulus? Come on. Does my passive P-bass even sound a little bit like my Deluxe Jazz V? (trick question) Yes, it does because my P-bass is a P/J! But does a straight one pickup passive P? So does the statement implying a P-bass can do everything make any sense at all? Well it does a little because a P-bass covers a LOT of ground and let's face it, I really love mine! But does it do it ALL?
Hardly.

And then you do the icing on the cake by saying you quit supporting TB because people discuss gear differences here? (However, we notice you are still posting) and then you equate anyone who comes into this thread (as I just did) criticizing a statement that P-basses do it all with people going to a CHURCH SERVICE making fun of dogma? Owning a P-bass is a religion!!?? Well, I must admit I've long said that about Fender owners, but I never heard anyone else make the statement so explicitly! So your idea of a gear discussion is a bunch of Fender sycophants fawning over P-basses so the discussion feels like going down for the third time in warm honey? This is how you think artists should be? Please.

And the final kick in the butt is you justify only owning a single bass and amp with a single sound and feel because, well, there is a list of famous players who also owned that bass? After all these years you mean to tell us you are STILL such a noob that you fall for that old marketing ploy to beginners that if you buy gear just like Joe Blow you'll be able to play just like Joe? You can't really be saying this as a serious argument, can you?
 

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