You should have ... because your post doesn't make sense. He was booked and cancelled in the same four day period in OCTOBER.
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Seriously??!!
- Thread starter christianbassguitar
- Start date
For those of us who do more than a little subbing, terms need to be spelled out pretty clearly. My terms normally are, you book me and cancel, you pay me my hourly rate for the advertised length of the gig. Now, having said that, if the gig was a couple of months out and the cancellation came just a couple of days after the initial booking, I would be more inclined to let them out of the deal. This is business, being friends has very little to do with it...other than my friends understand better about why I expect to be paid.
My thoughts.....
Shenanigans. Absolutely no way dude cancelled or refused a gig on Dec 12 (loose guess) all the way back in October within the 3-4 day window we're talking about. And if so, dude is in high enough demand that he can cover that. It's not like he had a pile of woodshedding to do to prep for the gig. He's a douche, plain and simple.
Pay him nothing.
Burn the bridge.
Sleep like a baby knowing you don't have to deal with having him in your life anymore. He obviously isn't worried about how he's making you feel or the situation he's putting you in. Why should you worry about him?
I repeat, burn it.
I agree with 'LAST MINUTE' cancellations that one should still be compensated in some way or form. I think we all agree on this. Sometimes things are beyond our control such as weather, life/death event, city event cancel (We have Bay Days here annually, this year it was cancelled due to minimal funding). If one has contracts in place with stipulations that will allow one to be compensated even if cancelled.........Cool! Outside of that...........tough luck.
I totally agree. If at the beginning all terms and conditions have been put on the table, I am more than willing to comply because professionalism, ethics and integrity should be exercised at all times especially dealing with pro musicians. Adding to the fact that we know very well how difficult it is to be a Pro.
Having said that, I think this incident is ridiculous given the fact that there was no mention of declined gig, rate, conditions and fee from initial talk up to the notice of cancellation 4 days after the job offer. I had an impression that all was good and we move on with life.....until yesterday (2 months after), it was not the case.
Like I said. Tell him the gig paid $25 a man. Give him 1/2 of that and buh bye!
I'm with you to a point. My policy is if I haven't declined something else, I won't ask for compensation, lead time be damned. There's no reason to squeeze somebody if they haven't cost you money.
Personally, I think he has a valid and justifiable point. You asked him to make a commitment to you, which he did. You did not return the gesture and commit to him. Think on that for a moment.
He took his commitment to you seriously and cleared up that date for your gig. In my mind, it doesn't matter if it was two seconds later, two days later, two weeks later, or two months later... as soon as you withdrew the date, he foots the bill for the lost opportunity cost of his time. There is no scientific method for determining just how much value that opportunity cost has, in actual money or in concept, but it does have some. It was a verbal agreement contract, and you vacated it at his loss. Some compensation is certainly deserved, surely by etiquette and quite possibly legally, should he so choose to go that route. I think that the value of that compensation is all that's left to decide.
He took his commitment to you seriously and cleared up that date for your gig. In my mind, it doesn't matter if it was two seconds later, two days later, two weeks later, or two months later... as soon as you withdrew the date, he foots the bill for the lost opportunity cost of his time. There is no scientific method for determining just how much value that opportunity cost has, in actual money or in concept, but it does have some. It was a verbal agreement contract, and you vacated it at his loss. Some compensation is certainly deserved, surely by etiquette and quite possibly legally, should he so choose to go that route. I think that the value of that compensation is all that's left to decide.
He was cancelled well over a month ago. Not four days before the gig. Why didn't he ask for compensation then? Now a month and half later he's asking?
That's my take, too. If it is/was such a big deal to him, then it should have been brought up at the point of cancellation.
LOL! If I sued every time someone promised something verbally and later backed out, I'd be in court all the time. Life doesn't work that way.
He's asked to fill in for a gig 2 months away.
He tells you he'll bail if a better gig comes his way.
A few days later you find a permanent drummer and let him know he's not needed.
A month after that he tells you he wants a cut from that gig.
I would not pay him anything because he doesn't deserve anything. If I were that drummer I wouldn't even consider asking to be paid for that gig.
He's crazy.
He tells you he'll bail if a better gig comes his way.
A few days later you find a permanent drummer and let him know he's not needed.
A month after that he tells you he wants a cut from that gig.
I would not pay him anything because he doesn't deserve anything. If I were that drummer I wouldn't even consider asking to be paid for that gig.
He's crazy.
Agreed (although chances of legal action/settlement are pretty slim, but I get your point).
It seems a lot of folks want to justify a broken promise with fancy spontaneous timeline/statute of limitations acrobatic logic.
No matter how you slice it, it was a broken promise, plain and simple. And whether or not the victim addressed it in a way that you would, or you think he should, does not change that fact. He got burned, and sometimes it takes awhile for the pain to make you yelp.
And people accusing the sub of being a money grabber? lol, get real. As if gigs at this level pay so much they can actually break you financially. Weak sauce.
I'm certain it's much more about the unethical nature of an offer made, a gig promised, which was accepted, and then backing out on your verbal agreement. Two days, two weeks, two months, who cares? It doesn't change the fact this is over a broken promise.
If the sub in this story was in my neighborhood and told me what happened to him, I would avoid OP and his band mates like the plague, and I would spread the word about them to anyone who asked.
It's obvious OP really doesn't care about this individual, and that is sad. Between the two, OP and his band will wear the brand of dishonesty, not the sub. We reap what we sow.
If this sub actually followed through and bailed, leaving OP hanging without a drummer, then you'd have a point, and we'd be sympathizing with OP over it.
But as it stands you're only speculating. For all we know, the sub would have played the date.
Nope...he actually told me that....hence I looked elsewhere because I need to make sure the person will commit.....and as per what he told me, he ain't if there a bigger pie elsewhere...
Yeah I think if he had also put time in to start learning the set then he should be due something, the amount is negotiable. The fact remains he was prepared to help you out of a situation and at the time you had asked him you had potentially no drummer so potentially wouldn't have been able to do the gig without a drummer. If the two of you are good mates you should be able to resolve this amicably without losing friendships over it.
Then you should have said, on the spot, "NO DEAL."
But you didn't. You accepted the terms.
And, in reality, he didn't find the "other gig" and intended to drum for you.
