Set up from a retailer

[micguy]

We Germans have Thomann.

I've been to one of those - it was a nice store, but as I wasn't looking for a bass, I didn't try any.

We Chicagoans have Chicago Music Exchange. Yes, their inventory is typically higher end stuff, but if you pick up a bass there, it's always playable,. whether it's new or 50 years old. And they have more basses than any GC I've ever been to. It's not impossible to do this well - GC just isn't trying at this point. They're trying to stay in business by cutting labor costs (which means they don't have enough staff to keep their inventory in good shape). That approach isn't working.

 

[electracoyote]

Many of the basses I've seen in GC are not the result of someone else's preferences - yes, some of them are a little higher or lower than I would set them up, but I've seen basses where one or more strings were actually sitting on frets - literally no one would ever be able to play the bass "set up" that way. I've also seen high enough action that you wondered if the truss rod was broken, and which weren't even close to being intonated right for that action.

I wonder if the guitars are typically set up better? Maybe it's because they're "just basses"?

I've seen it too. I'm not denying it happens, but it is very rare IME.

In those rare instances, and if I'm in the mood, I'll tell a clerk the bass is locked up too tight to play. Most of the time, they make the effort or hand it over to the on-site tech, if they have one.

If I have read nothing but good stuff about the bass, seen some YouTube or a local player with one, and I am serious about owning it, I take it home and use the 30-day trial period. I'm not above sticking a hex wrench here and there to test functionality and at least make sounds come out of it.

But in a general sense, I just don't get torqued over a bass that doesn't play well in the music store, and I don't see the point.

There might be something to the "they're just basses" mentality, considering most of the clerks in the bass department aren't bass players. And IME, the guitars in GC outnumber the basses 10:1, and no, the situation there is not much different.

 

[Kmonk]

I know my local GC does no setup at all, they just unbox them and hang one on the wall. I guess it’s the trade off for low prices, but it can’t help to sell basses if your first impression of an unfamiliar instrument is a sky-high Action. I have a mom n’ pop nearby that seems to do some setup, but they are a little shady, I’ve been burned a couple times, so I avoid them. Tight profit margins and poorly trained and paid staff, waddya expect?

Since when does Guitar Center have low prices? Most prices are dictated by the manufacturer. Guitar Center prices are pretty much the same as every other retailer.

 

[lfmn16]

Maybe stores should set up basses with factory specs. It may not be what we all want but at least we will have a standard set up as a starting point.

Good idea. It may not be the way everyone likes it, but it would at least be consistent.

Setting up a bass isn't rocket science. The stores should teach the sales people how to do it so they could do something useful instead of sitting around playing pocket pool half the time.

 

[fretno]

Yeah but sales people just can't tell most of the time . Educate your staff , prep your goods to be demo'd and received , sell more store stock .

 

[klejst]

I agree the best option is learn how to set your bass up to how you want it, especially since you've had a string of bad luck when someone else does it.

 

[gln1955]

Good idea. It may not be the way everyone likes it, but it would at least be consistent.

Setting up a bass isn't rocket science. The stores should teach the sales people how to do it so they could do something useful instead of sitting around playing pocket pool half the time.

Well, according to some posts in this thread, store emplyees are too stupid to learn how to do a basic setup. Somehow it's simple enough that every bass player can do it, but the underpaid schmucks in a store whose job it is to sell musical instruments can't possibly be trained.

 

[electracoyote]

I really don't see it as the retailers responsibility to set up new instruments.
Almost all other instruments are shipped from the manufacturers in their best playable condition.
Pianos are tuned and regulated. Saxophones are checked for leaky pads and spring tension is adjusted.

The whole issue of bass guitars being poorly set up is not universal.
There are many bass builders who take enough pride in their products to make sure that they are set up and playable before they leave the shop. Some obviously do not.

High volume manufacturers may likely have QC process by which they isolate instruments that are less than good and send them to big box retailers thinking that they can slide them through and likely not see them again where as smaller retailers may send them back in exchange for better stock inventory.

Those less than perfect instruments that get returned to the manufacturer are then re-packaged (maybe) and shipped off to a big box retailer where they are taken out of the box and hung on the wall.
The good ones sell, the bad ones stay on the wall. Before long as this happens a larger and larger percentage of the instruments on the wall are the duds. Then you end up with a mega store that has mostly crap and the store gets blamed.

Great observations. This explains why I am usually more inclined to buy a bass long-distance NIB (with the option to ship it back no-charge or return to the store if it has a major flaw) or gently used from a seller who will answer all my questions and give me reasonable assurances it's a winner. In truth, I rarely buy from brick and mortar stores, for some of the reasons you outlined. We have Wildwood Guitars and Drum City Guitarland near my home base, and those folks go the extra mile with things like inspections and set ups, but many stores, even small mom and pop places, aren't putting in the effort.

We here in the USA used to live in a customer-service oriented retail society. Those days are all but gone. In general, we don't consider each others' needs very well these days. I can't remember the last time a young person said "Thank you" at the drive-through window, but it's pretty rare. It's just not taught or expected.

So it is with retail. Instead of service before the sale, it's now all about service after the sale; warranties, returns, etc. More and more, the consumer has to educate himself and understand the product even better than the sales staff. Sad but true.

Now, with something like a dishwasher, that's a big learning curve and a pain in the butt. I don't want to be a dishwasher expert or repairman, I just want clean dishes.

But with my musical instruments, I somehow don't mind so much. I do want to be an expert with my instruments, as smart or smarter than the sales staff, so if I've been forced by the social retail dynamic to learn how to "rescue" a neglected bass with a few simple hand tools and a 20-minute set up, that's only going to make me a better musician in the end.

 

[lfmn16]

Yeah but sales people just can't tell most of the time . Educate your staff , prep your goods to be demo'd and received , sell more store stock .

The 'problem' is that there are very few industries where sales people do anything other than stand around when they aren't with a customer.

 

[arbiterusa]

I've worked in four different music stores in my life. There's never been time or enough people to be able to pull every instrument and do a full setup on them, end of story. If we found something particularly egregious we'd fix that. Back in the bad old days (late 70s/early 80s) you'd get in instruments from the factory that would have to go right straight back out to a repair guy. Twisted necks, popping frets, that sort of thing. That stopped after Fender closed their US plants for 1985, sold nothing but Fender Japan instruments that year, and everyone got the message: up your game or get unemployed. I never had to set up any of the Fender Japan instruments. Didn't even have to change strings. Put 'em up, sell 'em. Salesman's dream.

Nowadays, most everything I've played in stores is a bit on the high side actionwise but still playable enough. The string slots at the nut is almost always a real trouble spot, at least for my tastes. But not anything I'd fix in a store bass. If I did, half the guys trying it out would be bitching up a storm about all the buzz.

 

[electracoyote]

The 'problem' is that there are very few industries where sales people do anything other than stand around when they aren't with a customer.

Right. It has nothing to do with relative intelligence, it's the expectation from above. I'm sure most staff members at GC could be trained to bring a hopelessly unplayable bass back to life if it only needs a few minor tweaks. But there is usually 1. No expectation, and 2. No desire. The exception would be if a customer is hot for a bass and the employee is ambitious for a sale and industrious enough to use a hex wrench. But assuming or relying on that is folly.

Even still, all I'm ever going to get with a GC employee "set up" is "playable." They will never get it so close to my needs and preferences as to blow my mind and magically pull money out of my wallet that easily. Best case, I will end up taking it home and changing all the settings to my preferences no matter what.

And part of the issue is, these sales clerks know most of us are going to do just that, so they develop a "why bother" mentality.

 

[ObsessiveArcher]

You are buying the guitar. Setup is a service. Unless you are also purchasing or negotiate that service, I would not expect it. Would I like to have that service included? Sure!

 

[pigpen1]

I don't expect it to be setup to my tastes. I just expect the notes to to fret out (they can buzz a little) and the strings to not be an inch from the frets. I've seen both of these.

 

[arbiterusa]

Well, according to some posts in this thread, store emplyees are too stupid to learn how to do a basic setup. Somehow it's simple enough that every bass player can do it, but the underpaid schmucks in a store whose job it is to sell musical instruments can't possibly be trained.

Those posters are wrong. It's not that the employees can't do setup. Almost all can. Most can even do it decently. But:

1. If you've got customers in the store, you'd better not be off in the corner setting up an instrument or you are fired. The employee's only job is to sell. If the customer wants to buy and wants adjustment, at that time the salesperson rings out the customer, says thank you, and it goes to the repair guy. The salesperson is to go back onto the floor and sell some more at that point.

2. I was always willing to let my employees break their own instruments on the workbench on their own time, but customer and store stock repairs that were not string changes or saddle adjustments had to be done by the repair guy (usually me). Try sending back a truss rod adjustment gone bad by a non-qualified tech/salesguy to a manufacturer claiming that it's under warranty. You're better off just throwing it in the garbage and telling the store owner that you, personally, are an idiot and should be fired.

3. Know your limits. I've done more than 5000 setups. Minor and major repairs, done 'em all. Finish? I'm a master (literally). Fretwork? Call someone else. Really. I suck at fretwork.

 

[tlc1976]

When you buy a new car, don't you have to adjust the seat, mirrors, steering wheel, and radio to your preferences??? Basses are the same. You only need a few simple hand tools and a tuner to set up and instrument yourself.

Every new bass I've bought included the hex wrenches for the truss rod and bridge saddles. All you needed was 1 or possibly 2 different sized Phillips screwdrivers.

 

[electracoyote]

Those posters are wrong. It's not that the employees can't do setup. Almost all can. Most can even do it decently. But:

1. If you've got customers in the store, you'd better not be off in the corner setting up an instrument or you are fired. The employee's only job is to sell. If the customer wants to buy and wants adjustment, at that time the salesperson rings out the customer, says thank you, and it goes to the repair guy. The salesperson is to go back onto the floor and sell some more at that point.

2. I was always willing to let my employees break their own instruments on the workbench on their own time, but customer and store stock repairs that were not string changes or saddle adjustments had to be done by the repair guy (usually me). Try sending back a truss rod adjustment gone bad by a non-qualified tech/salesguy to a manufacturer claiming that it's under warranty. You're better off just throwing it in the garbage and telling the store owner that you, personally, are an idiot and should be fired.

3. Know your limits. I've done more than 5000 setups. Minor and major repairs, done 'em all. Finish? I'm a master (literally). Fretwork? Call someone else. Really. I suck at fretwork.

Good observations, especially #2 bolded above. Contrary to the assertions of some, setting up a bass or guitar is NOT something "every bass player" or music store employee can do (or do well), and we have TB'ers confessing that all the time. So if one of your GC employees doesn't quite get the hang of it, you find out the hard way, from something like an over-torqued broken truss rod, and the store eats it.

Know your limits, indeed. To be honest, a small part of me always worries about what the last person who took tools to my bass did with them.

 

[tlc1976]

To be honest, a small part of me always worries about what the last person who took tools to my bass did with them.

That is a good point too.

 

[bwoodman]

I’ve purchased many MusicMan basses from Bass Central and they’re all good out of the box!

 

[ThuzzleFump]

The way GC sets up (or doesn't) their instruments, the couple of times I've bought basses there, I didn't consider them purchases - they were rescues.

 

[BassAndReeds]

I think what the OP is saying is why basses can be unplayable in stores? I just went to my local GC to try a Squire VM Jaguar. Couldn't play the instrument past the 11th fret. Clearly the truss rod wasn't adjusted properly.

IMO, all basses in shops should get an "average" setup, and be fully playable across the instrument. Then, if a user wanted to tweak the setup a little bit, they could. But I don't see why a shop wouldn't setup a bass to an average adjustment. When I purchase a car, do I need to go straight to a mechanic for an oil change and tire rotation? No. The shop does that on your way out, and gives you 4 future oil changes and tire rotations for free (granted it's a different price point, but still). Why when I buy a new bass do I need to do a setup then?

Things I think I should expect from a shop (and for some reason don't get):
1. The string height at an average level on new basses. Don't put on display a bass where the string height is an inch off the fretboard. Come on music stores. It throws the instrument out of tune and you can't hear the pickups with it up that high.
2. Truss Rod set for A=440 standard E tuning. Most of us play normal EADG tuning @ A=440. Why wouldn't the truss rod be set for that? I imagine, even if the bass got detuned to Eb, it would still work properly, since the string height is medium (assuming #1 was implemented).

Things I don't expect from the shop:
1. The nut adjusted. This is timely and I don't think is the shop's job or in best interest to do.
2. The intonation adjusted. This would be nice, but it does take time to set intonation. And I understand time is money.

I could set string height and a truss rod in 5 minutes or less. I think this is reasonable.