Setting Tempos

[jasonrp]

Slither is an excellent example of a song that wants to take off when you play it

 

[eriky4003]

Good example of how getting the beat right only ruined the show...
Someone filmed parts of one of our gigs. The drummer realized we had played certain songs too fast (true) and he thought the groove of the original was lost. He hated it so much, he went through our song list and actually got the correct tempo onto a listing which he would punch into an electronic metronome. Our next gig between songs he would find the bpm on his listing, punch in the beats per minute, get the groove then cue the band - only thing was, he wouldn't start punching in the bpm right after the last song ended, he'd take a moment then start that process. I'm sure between each song was a thirty second break!
Fortunately, we were able to persuade him that this was not the right course of action and we discuss tempo at practice. If he finds we don't start songs correctly (as he hears it), he cues the player before the song starts. Way better solution!

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Slither is an excellent example of a song that wants to take off when you play it

This is not true, you are just getting excited at a sweet rock song.

OP, I did not read the whole thread (don't report me) so this may have come up but I use to play in a prog band and we had to use a fill-in drummer before. The guy charted everything but to help himself with a couple tempos he would bring an Ipad and set it beside his drum kit. He would run some program that flashed the beat at him, nobody else could see it. This will not help if your band has pacing issues but if you only need to set the click, this works fantastic.

 

[Jools4001]

There is also [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[The_Janitor]

I've played with drummers that used metronome apps on their phones with an earbud. They punch in the correct tempo then count off the tune.

Same here, works great. Everybody follows the drummer, whole band is locked in to the chosen tempo.

 

[Ewo]

All songs, all the time with backup singers and dancers without ANY PROBLEMS playing to a click.

As I understand the threadstarter, the OP's drummer is having trouble feeling the right tempo for tunes; his countoffs are bad, IOW. My recommendation was based on the idea that playing to a click through a whole tune is more difficult than copping a good tempo from a metronome, and then counting it off. Something tells me it's a nonstarter to ask this drummer to play to a click track.

 

[Mudcat35]

I've played some gigs in a ballroom dance band. Those dancers are really strict about tempos. The drummer had a metronome, and a tempo for each song written down. She counted off the tunes. Purists might scoff at the idea, but it worked.

This right here ^^^^^^.

My drummer has been doing this for years on any song that we don't nail every time.

 

[Dgl44]

The most simple solution would be to rehearse with a metronome. Fortunatelly I play with a great drummeress (if that's even a word ) who comes from a jazz background, and can keep time like a metronome. Although with all the energy that we as a band produce during rehearsal sometimes she kept speeding up all throughout the the song. We fixed that completely by rehearsing with a metronome. A simple smartphone app, a pair of headphones and a few weeks of rehearsal every day and all of us, not only the drummer, got our song tempos down by heart. We never use metronome live though, only when rehearsing for an upcoming gig.

TL;DR:
Give the drummer a metronome and a pair of headphones to use during rehearsal - problem solved.

 

[Liam Wald]

One of the bands that I was in a while back had a drummer who had a very similar problem. He used a metronome click into an ear bud.
It didn't work for a couple of reasons.
He would leave it on through the entire song. Not all songs have static tempo. In fact most don't. The tempo dynamics may be ever so slight but if you don't do them you can kill the whole feel of the song.
The other thing was that he would often forget to change the metronome before starting a new song... train wreck.
We found that the only solution was to get a drummer with solid meter.

 

[petey293]

Sheesh, when I tried to correct our drummer's tempo at a gig, he went off and told me I had a huge ego, how he'd been playing music for 40 years longer than I have, and that I shouldn't be telling him how to play his drums. I apologized just to keep him from walking away that night, he was THAT pissed. What I really wanted to say was if he had been playing for that long, he shouldn't have been having the tempo problems to begin with... All I said to him was "make sure to watch the tempo for this song, it speeds up easily."

 

[MrLenny1]

What Stewie26 said.

 

[Red Planet]

I am an old dawg that has learned a new trick.
I so much like playing with a click track.
I think it helps the whole band though you need IEM to do it live.

 

[obimark]

Playing songs too fast kills the groove. It is a sign of an amateur band.

 

[jive1]

Another thing to consider is whether the band or instrumentalist is coming in at the right count. If they don't, that will affect the tempo as people are coming in at the wrong beat, or the tempo gets messed up as people are trying to recalibrate. For example, for many BB king songs, the guitarist comes in on the 'and' of the 3 count and the band comes in on the 1 of the next measure. There's some songs where a band member may kick off the song on the 2,3, or 4 count and the band comes in on the one. If people mistook that for the first note as the 1, then things get messed up.

Another thing is to count in using a feel. Sometimes the tempo gets screwed up as people are getting the feel right. If it's a swing, I'll count 'one and uh, 2 and uh, 3 and uh, 4 and uh' with the accents on the beat. If it's a complicated beat with alot of 16th notes on the hihat, I'll count 'one ee and uh, 2 ee and uh, etc.'. Make sure the person counting in the tune also is counting in using the right feel.

And there's some songs that you might want someone else in the band to count in. There are some songs that if the tempo is too fast or slow, the singer can have difficulty phrasing or getting the words out. One of my bands does 'You Make My Dreams Come True' by Hall and Oates. My inclination is to play slower than it should, which makes the singer drag the verses. So, the singer will count out that one so that she's comfortable with the phrasing of the tune. On a song that the saxophone player is leading, he'll count it out and call out the changes as they need to happen. Although I prefer the drummer to count out everything, there are times when it's better for someone else to.

Some songs might be a little trickier since there's beats implied that you may not want to count out. For example, when I do 'I Got You' by James Brown I come in on the 2 with 'I feel good', but I'm not going to count out the beat beforehand. I'll count 1, 2, 3, 4 and then pause a beat and then come in with the vocal. But, the count in should set the tempo for the vocal line and imply the time value of the silent beat.

 

[aprod]

What happened to developing musicianship? If your drummer refuses to develop his internal clock find another drummer. I understand he is your friend and going your separate musical ways could actually save the friendship. You don't want to end up resenting him to the point where you can't stand the sight of him. No metronome training is going to help the band. A metronome can feed you the tempo but it can't tell you if the tune is swingin' ,funk ,rock or whatever groove it may be.

 

[obimark]

This is typically a drummer thing- and the hardest beaters are also the worst speed-uppers in my experience. They are "rushing" to play their next over-powering drum fill.

 

[ChrisB2]

What happened to developing musicianship?.

BAH!! This isn't about musicianship, it's about getting on any stage you can, making the most money with the least effort, and hoping drunk chicks take their shirts off. C'mon man!!

 

[two fingers]

I've played some gigs in a ballroom dance band. Those dancers are really strict about tempos. The drummer had a metronome, and a tempo for each song written down. She counted off the tunes. Purists might scoff at the idea, but it worked.

I've also talked to my kids about setting tempos, and I tell them to sing the "interesting" part of the tune in their head, to get a feel for the tempo. For a rock band, that might be something like a vocal chorus.

Nothing anti purist about this at all. I fill in with a couple of up and coming Nashville artists all the time. They bring different drummers from there all the time. Without exception, those drummers run a small mixer that has an in early monitor mix in one channel and a metronome in the other. They click off every single song using the metronome in their ears. Works like a champ. Never fails.

OP, have the drummer get a metronome with earphone jack. Then write down the tempo of every song. Have him start the tempo in his ear to get the song started. Then he can reach over and tap the stop button once things get going if he hates it in his ear while playing. Crazy simple.

 

[two fingers]

What happened to developing musicianship? If your drummer refuses to develop his internal clock find another drummer. I understand he is your friend and going your separate musical ways could actually save the friendship. You don't want to end up resenting him to the point where you can't stand the sight of him. No metronome training is going to help the band. A metronome can feed you the tempo but it can't tell you if the tune is swingin' ,funk ,rock or whatever groove it may be.

Sorry to repeat my last post, but every single pro out of Nashville I play with brings a small mixer with a metronome in one channel and in ear monitor mix in the other. They click off every single song with a metronome in their ear. Once the song kicks off they tap the stop button. I have played with over a dozen of them and every one uses this system.

If it works for Nashville I suppose it won't hurt the "musicianship" of a local bar band, right?

 

[LowNloud1]

Did a neat exercise with our practice recordings from last night. There's an app called "Tempo" that allows you to tap the beat on your phone to get the BPMs. I tapped the bpm from the original then the bpm from our practice. About 1/3 were off by greater than 5 bpm, enough in my estimate to make a significant difference to the song's groove.

It showed which songs we need to pay attention to and which we don't. I will say that there were a couple that sounded better faster than the original, however. It is a matter of taste.