Setting Tempos

[Rayjay]

I've also talked to my kids about setting tempos, and I tell them to sing the "interesting" part of the tune in their head, to get a feel for the tempo. For a rock band, that might be something like a vocal chorus.

If you're NOT doing this before the count, simply put you're doing it wrong.

 

[Jazz Ad]

My drummer has irregularity issues.
He tried a click track but he's not a fan.
He now plays with a visual metronome mounted between his toms
He makes sure we start songs at the right tempo and keeps it as a visual reference.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Not for nothing, but if he doesn't think there is a problem, he's not going to do anything.

Recordings don't lie.

 

[InhumanResource]

People have blind spots, unfortunately...we have a similar problem - the drummer will count the song in, and then the melody players start at whatever tempo they want. Then there's an argument about it being "right" compared to what is on the record.

Nobody ever listens to me, but my comment is always that it is way more important for us to be CONSISTENT than it is to be dead-on correct to the record! We can't groove if the tempo is moving, or burning fast compared to where the drummer counted it off. I'd rather have every tune be the same tempo from start-to-finish than constantly shift it, only to have dead air between tunes while guitarists change from strats to les pauls (between which nobody in the audience can tell the difference anyway).

I'll get off my soapbox now

 

[Kmonk]

I have played with a lot of drummer who speed up and slow down. Some guys get it and some don't. Tell him to try using a metronome. If the problem persists, you might have to think about finding a new drummer.

 

[ChrisB2]

@LowNloud1

A lot of people have trouble following a blinking metronome or a click track. And if you get off tempo, the device just keeps going while you get left behind.

I think a better approach is the Beat Bug. It attaches to the snare, senses the snare hits and reads out the BPM. It doesn't dictate your tempo, it just tells you what it is. That way if the song needs to vary for feel, or if you just can't follow a click, it doesn't matter.

Think of it like a speedometer on a car; it doesn't tell you how fast to go, it tells you how fast you're going. You adjust to what you think is right, not conform to the device.

Plus, no programming. Just start hitting the snare and it reads out the BPM. Faster with less fiddling.

I've never gotten a drummer to use one but I think the concept is awesome.

Beat Bug 3

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I wouldn't recommend (???) trying to play to a click track all through a tune.

All songs, all the time with backup singers and dancers without ANY PROBLEMS playing to a click.

 

[hsech]

I played in a Duo for a while and we used a drum machine. With a lot of practice it was seamless to change BPM on the machine so there was no down time between songs. What is the point of this post? The point is rather you practice with a drum machine or a metronome, you can learn to be on tempo and steady.

 

[chaosMK]

Just hit the drummer with a broom at rehearsal and coach him in general about it. Just have a talk with a guy, like over and over and over. Sometimes people be thick headed and even though u talked to them about it, the coaching gets lost when they hit the stage or have their next beer/toke. If you are a consistent force of slave driving/coaching, you will succeed. I've dealt with tempo drummers myself and on stage I will turn around and give them "tempo look" (a variant of evil eye) before they start the song. I'll talk to them about it before the set. I'll talk to them at it every practice. When they see the Evil Eye, they will know what it means and usually it means getting hit by a broom. That is how u can get stuff done with musician-types, by being consistent and relentless.

There is also a new kind of drummer that you see sometimes. The "headphones" drummer. They wear these huge cans on stage and basically it's a mind control device used to control the speed of the drummer. I am not impressed by this kind of metronome. In a live situation the tempo should come from within, not from some cans. I like the slight sloppiness and tempo expression that is part of a live show.

Almost anything can be resolved by practicing/rehearsing more. "Yo your tempo sucked on that [hit drummer with broom]... lets do it again"

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I played in a Duo for a while and we used a drum machine. With a lot of practice it was seamless to change BPM on the machine so there was no down time between songs. What is the point of this post? The point is rather you practice with a drum machine or a metronome, you can learn to be on tempo and steady.

I cannot understand that there are quite a few bass players/musicians who are AFRAID of playing with the drum machine/metronome/click.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

In a live situation the tempo should come from within, not from some cans. I like the slight sloppiness and tempo expression that is part of a live show.

I truly disagree with your statement.
We are all just humans with our EMOTIONS especially on stage.
For every "elated"/"emotionally charged" bass player (who wants to speed up the song), you will have a Musician - the drummer, rhythm guitar, keyboard, etc... player in the band who wants to remain calm and play the rehearsed groove at the rehearsed tempo.
Playing onstage (in any condition) a rehearsed groove with the rehearsed tempo is one of the foundation for any band to become consistently good.

 

[nofrets5]

Peterson Body Beat has the ability to store I believe 30 presets. IDEALLY, it's great if the drummer doesn't have to keep time on an intro they are not playing on, but if two or more members start, you can see potential problems.

Tempo REF

I didn't see it exactly mentioned but if the is too fast you'll easily notice how that well written bass part, doesn't want to "sit" near the same, unless it's driving eight notes or something like that. I work in a tribute group and adjust tempos up or down a bpm for the closest feel to the recording we are mimicking. Even then, the band has to be conscious of pushing or pulling THAT very specific tempo, and I've played for years with click tracks for long periods of time in bands, so it can certainly be a challenge but when the drummer masters it, and all should, it feels great, the drummers say it just disappears in the earbuds and they just groove on it.

It's all context of what we all need to get out of it, but if a song MUST sound/feel a certain way, it's the only way to go. Sadly, the average listener has gotten use to that unmoving tempo since the days they started cutting tape for those older disco songs. Probably did it a lot earlier than that too.

 

[chaosMK]

For every "elated"/"emotionally charged" bass player (who wants to speed up the song), you will have a Musician - the drummer, rhythm guitar, keyboard, etc... player in the band who wants to remain calm and play the rehearsed groove at the rehearsed tempo.

I agree with you. You are talking about basic professionalism and maturity. However- When was the last time you created a tempo map for a studio track? Often to make a recording sound killer and capture the live energy you may want to do things like, for example, push the chorus by a tiny increment (like 2 BPM) to make it pop. That's the trouble with the tempo-canned drummer unless they are working off of a tempo map. No room for the nuance and what if the song has more than one tempo? I've almost never recorded a studio track where we did not consider the fine details of tempo during every phrase (its nice when the tune is gold with an even 120 BPM or something, but I like my stuff to pop not fall flat). I am coming from the originals realm.

 

[hintz]

As a former band director, I agree with this method. Start singing the "signature" part of the song in your head. The hook. The cool part. Your favorite part. Then snap your fingers along to it. If your band is trained, there is eye contact and everyone is bobbing their head along with you. Then count it off.

I think this is the best way outside of using a click to count off or even playing with track

 

[Bass Master General]

@LowNloud1 I think a better approach is the Beat Bug.

That looks awesome. However the kind of drumming I do when I drum doesn't have a consistent snare backbeat, but it does have a steady kick pulse; can this be used on a kick instead? I'd consult the link but it appears to not have been updated much since the year this device was invented (1999)

 

[morgansterne]

the first drummer when I joined this cover band could not start songs at the correct tempo. We never fired him, but we did point out that he needed to improve, and we didn't let up. The guitarist gave him about a dozen dirty looks per gig (an unprofessional habit he still can't quite break.) Eventually he quit and we found somebody else (with less technique) who could nail song tempos and keep them going at that tempo. That's really more important than any other attribute in a drummer, in my humble opinion.

 

[Sweet Willie]

I await the J.K. Simmons/Fletcher meme...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Often to make a recording sound killer and capture the live energy you may want to do things like, for example, push the chorus by a tiny increment (like 2 BPM) to make it pop. That's the trouble with the tempo-canned drummer unless they are working off of a tempo map. No room for the nuance.

I agree that you can change a tempo for your song. You can start the song slowly, and then accelerate, or vice versa.
It's your song - you could do whatever you please, but...
You should have a VERY good drummer (or any other musicians) that could increment tempo by 2 BPM in the chorus and then go back to a regular tempo in a verse.
Anyway, I would NOT change a tempo (!) by a tiny increment in order to make the chorus pop.
There are many other ways to arrange a song and emphasize the "hook."

 

[J Gold]

I sing the chorus to myself before counting off....if the words are rushed, you're in the wrong tempo.
This is super important for my church gig where getting people to sing is the goal...

 

[chungweishan]

It's easy to blame the drummer first, but there are songs which tend to go off the rails because of the other instruments (myself included). Velvet Revolver's "Slither" is slow and groovy on the recording, but when they play it live it's quite faster. When my band plays it, the drummer often remarks he has a hard time pulling us (guitar, bass) back. So I just use the Force and concentrate on the drummer's tempo and lock in. That main riff just has that "play fast" feel even though it shouldn't be.

The metronome is a good idea just to get an idea of the tempo. If you want to use it throughout the whole song as a click track, that's fine too. It's interesting how fast/slow my internal clock-tempo for each song is in the heat of the gig.