Setup issues Fender CS '64 Precision with Labella 0760M James Jamerson

[Zarin]

Greetings from The Netherlands! This is my first post on Talkbass.

I recently got hold on a Fender CS '64 Precision bass, AKA The James Jamerson bass.
It is a limited issued precision by Fender custom shop which I was searching for a long time. Finally I found one which was practically new, the first thing I did was setting it up as I used to do with all my previous precisions: Labella 0760M James Jamerson heavy gauges + pickup & bridge covers. Normally for me a job that takes less than an hour...

The pickup & bridge covers weren't that hard, but the strings surprisingly caused some, to me unknown but not unthinkable, issues. Right after putting the strings on the bass the neck bends drastically which resulted in an unacceptable relief, adjusting the truss rod didn't do quite much and after turning it a couple of times during some days I lost a bit of faith in it; for the first time in my bass career I brought a bass to a local luthier. He immediately saw the neck was bowed too much, and suggested a attempt to turn the truss rod a bit further, possibly with a shim and full bridge setup.

After a week I got a call the bass was ready, but with some good and bad news.
Good news: the action was a bit lower (around 4-5mm at the 12th fret, measured from the fret wire to the string). It's playable, but personally for me on the edge of getting heavy.

The bad news was that he turned the truss rod more less to the max and had to place a shim. In other words if the extreme tension from the strings will bend the neck during the time a further adjustment would be not possible. His advise was to play the bass for the next 2-3 months until the winter, to see if the colder weather might have a positive effect on the neck. If not; say good bye to the Jamerson set and move to a more ''bass neck friendly'' set of strings like the La Bella's 760FS or possibly the Thomastik Infeld strings.

I am slightly disappointed with this outcome. Once starting with a MIM precision followed by a Highway One Precision, American Professional Precision and vintage 1970 precision, I finally obtained the bass of my dreams and now I'm having setup difficulties which I have never experienced before.

I was wondering if there would be anyone out here who had similar experiences and possible some tips and tricks which might do the thing?

Many thanks for your input!

 

[96tbird]

How far back in the heel is the truss nut sitting? Sounds like you need some washers under it and perhaps clamp it into a bit of back bow to prepare for a setup.

You say shim. You mean in the pocket? Why would he do that when you have a relief issue?

 

[RSBBass]

I agree with @96tbird. A shim does nothing for the curve of the neck. That is a truss rod issue. You may have to add some washers to the truss rod to get you a bit more play for the truss rod. A shim changes the neck angle. If it wasn't a problem, then you don't need a shim.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I would first be interested in what the measured relief is in the neck; the actual deflection of the neck at the 8th fret from a straight edge (or string) between the 1st & 17th fret. It should be zero or back bowed with the truss rod at max, but other measures might be required to get the truss rod to perform at that level against the tension of the strings you have on the bass.

Secondly, I know it might be a used bass, and you might not be the original owner, but the fact it’s a custom shop bass should mean something to Fender. I’d contact them and see what they say. They might replace the neck if they can be shown it has a problem.

If Fender says you are on your own, you at least have the option of replacing the neck yourself, but I would take the suggestions already made and see about placing washers under the truss rod nut to see if the rod will overcome the string tension. Knowing how much more is needed (the current actual neck relief) might indicate if the truss rod even has a chance of adequately flattening the neck.

 

[Zarin]

How far back in the heel is the truss nut sitting? Sounds like you need some washers under it and perhaps clamp it into a bit of back bow to prepare for a setup.

You say shim. You mean in the pocket? Why would he do that when you have a relief issue?

In my post I forgot to mention that the luthier also placed a washer, how much washers and which thickness I don't know. I could give him a call to check that out. I agree with you that mounting the neck with a bit of back bow might be helpful, however the neck is, even with the current maximum truss rod adjustment, washer, and shim, not even straight when I loosen the strings.

The shim was something completely new to me to be honest. He used it to change the angle a bit, how the luthier explained to create some kind of back bow.

I would first be interested in what the measured relief is in the neck; the actual deflection of the neck at the 8th fret from a straight edge (or string) between the 1st & 17th fret. It should be zero or back bowed with the truss rod at max, but other measures might be required to get the truss rod to perform at that level against the tension of the strings you have on the bass.

I have to measure this exactly, I know that the string distance to the fret wire is around 4-5mm at the 12th fret.
When I loosen the strings the neck is still slightly bowed, far from flat, in any way not back bowed. While the truss rod is at the max, including the earlier mentioned adjustments/modifications.

Secondly, I know it might be a used bass, and you might not be the original owner, but the fact it’s a custom shop bass should mean something to Fender. I’d contact them and see what they say. They might replace the neck if they can be shown it has a problem.

It's an unused bass, I bought it from a bass collector here in The Netherlands. How is Fender dealing with this kind of problems? I even don't know how to contact them directly, would this be via a local authorized dealer?

If Fender says you are on your own, you at least have the option of replacing the neck yourself, but I would take the suggestions already made and see about placing washers under the truss rod nut to see if the rod will overcome the string tension. Knowing how much more is needed (the current actual neck relief) might indicate if the truss rod even has a chance of adequately flattening the neck.

I am wondering if this neck would be even available for sale, and if it is available what price it would have.
I will call the luthier to check which and how many washers he placed. I know the La Bella set puts a lot of tension on the neck, but while I am writing I think it's kind of odd the neck is not even flat without the strings.

Many thanks so far for all your input! Much appreciated!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Yes, ideally with no strings and no to very minimal truss rod tension the neck should be straight.

 

[Zarin]

I just removed the neck from the bass and it is definitely not straight. I removed the shim and mounted everything back, the space between the 12th fret and the string is 5mm+, so the shim is doing something.

I tried to move the truss rod, but it is really stuck, regardless the direction you try to turn.

Is there a way in general to get this neck fixed anyway?

 

[TomB]

I just removed the neck from the bass and it is definitely not straight. I removed the shim and mounted everything back, the space between the 12th fret and the string is 5mm+, so the shim is doing something.
I tried to move the truss rod, but it is really stuck, regardless the direction you try to turn.

Is there a way in general to get this neck fixed anyway?

There are companies that specialize in heat-treating necks to straighten them. I have no info or experience but I know I read about it here on TB and I know at least some TB’ers have experienced success. Try a search.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I have read good reports about warpedneck.com but I have no personal experience. I suspect shipping to the States might be prohibitive. Maybe one of our Euro members knows of someplace closer to you.

 

[FrenchBassQC]

Sorry to see that you're having such an issue with the neck. This is a Custom Shop after all, I hope Fender can do something for you. That really sucks...

 

[TomB]

I have read good reports about warpedneck.com but I have no personal experience. I suspect shipping to the States might be prohibitive. Maybe one of our Euro members knows of someplace closer to you.

Does it really cost that much to ship a neck overseas? Is CITES an issue?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Does it really cost that much to ship a neck overseas? Is CITES an issue?

I have no idea. I’m sure he can check into rates if he wants to go that route.

 

[Zarin]

Thanks for your input!

There are companies that specialize in heat-treating necks to straighten them. I have no info or experience but I know I read about it here on TB and I know at least some TB’ers have experienced success. Try a search.

I spoke to a bass guitar builder and he also suggested to straigthen the neck with clamps first as a next step.

I have read good reports about warpedneck.com but I have no personal experience. I suspect shipping to the States might be prohibitive. Maybe one of our Euro members knows of someplace closer to you.

Sorry to see that you're having such an issue with the neck. This is a Custom Shop after all, I hope Fender can do something for you. That really sucks...

I have no idea. I’m sure he can check into rates if he wants to go that route.

I have to think about any further next steps, possibly with Fender, as it is a custom shop bass after all as you mention. Shipping the neck outside Europe won't be an option for me, beside cites (which is not longer an issue I believe?) I think the cost for shipping, repairing and returning would be tremendous.

The only thing I would have in mind is to loosen the truss rod completely, keep the neck resting for a week and start to tighten the truss rod a quarter turn every day to see if that may have any results. Any thoughts/experiences on this?

 

[RattleSnack]

There is one more thing to consider: you didn't mention where FROM did you get the bass, but if temp and humidity are much different than where it is now, this may have caused the problem. Wood the neck is made from (maple) is protected by finish, and wood that fretboard is made from (rosewood?) is not protected. They soak and let go of moisture at different rate, pushing/pulling agains each other, so it takes time for them to equalise, once the neck is in stable conditions. That is probably why your luthier advised you to wait.
If I was in your spot, and dien't have an easy or close by solution, I would give it time.
Put on some flats with less tension, set it up, and play it. In a couple of months, revisit this high tension stings and check if things changed.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thanks for your input!



I spoke to a bass guitar builder and he also suggested to straigthen the neck with clamps first as a next step.







I have to think about any further next steps, possibly with Fender, as it is a custom shop bass after all as you mention. Shipping the neck outside Europe won't be an option for me, beside cites (which is not longer an issue I believe?) I think the cost for shipping, repairing and returning would be tremendous.

The only thing I would have in mind is to loosen the truss rod completely, keep the neck resting for a week and start to tighten the truss rod a quarter turn every day to see if that may have any results. Any thoughts/experiences on this?

If the neck has has some time to acclimate to your environment I’m not sure letting it sit unstring will make a difference. If anything, clamp the neck into a backbow and see if you can tighten the truss rod so it holds the neck that way then you could try restringing it. StewMac’s YouTube channel has a video where Dan demonstrates that. However, if there is a decent amount of relief with the neck unstrung and no tension on the truss rod, and I think you said there was, I wouldn’t count on that method.

From what I’ve read the warpedneck.com treatment isn’t expensive, under $100 US I believe. I have no idea what’s involved in the shipping though. Maybe if you contact them it’s possible they have done that before. If it’s just the neck shipping might not be too bad. They might also know of someone in Europe that offers a similar service.

 

[Zarin]

If the neck has has some time to acclimate to your environment I’m not sure letting it sit unstring will make a difference. If anything, clamp the neck into a backbow and see if you can tighten the truss rod so it holds the neck that way then you could try restringing it. StewMac’s YouTube channel has a video where Dan demonstrates that. However, if there is a decent amount of relief with the neck unstrung and no tension on the truss rod, and I think you said there was, I wouldn’t count on that method.

From what I’ve read the warpedneck.com treatment isn’t expensive, under $100 US I believe. I have no idea what’s involved in the shipping though. Maybe if you contact them it’s possible they have done that before. If it’s just the neck shipping might not be too bad. They might also know of someone in Europe that offers a similar service.

Again thanks for your input!
I looked at the site of warpedneck.com, all looks very promising and fair pricing though. If I was in their area I wouldn't look into any further options and send the whole toy to them.

Loosening the truss rod completely didn't do anything as was also more less expected. The relief I have is too much (perhaps it still would not have not been enough for James Jamerson), but certainly not excessively, it's not a boomerang. I think with a medium/regular gauge set of strings everything would be just fine, The La Bella's are just making it challenging. Also the fact that the adjustment with the truss rod won't do anything when it might be necessary to adjust any further in the future.

I found the video where Dan is demonstrating the neck straightening by loosen the truss rod completely and clamp the neck into a backbow. I did exactly the same; only on my kitchen table instead on a vise. I pressed the clamp into a kind of excessive back bow (mounted the clamp in the area of the 7th fret) and kept it under tension that way for about 15 min. I put some vaseline on the truss nut and turn it tight (tight means tight, but not forced in any way, there is still some room for a couple of extra turns). I kept the washer on the truss rod. The result was that the neck was more less flat. I don't have a straight edge, but before I started I put the neck with the fret board on the table and noticed a significant bow, after the above mentioned steps I did the same and it was very close to flat on the table.

As said; I kept the bass neck on the clamp for about 15 min, perhaps when I kept it a bit longer before I turned the truss nut, the neck would have been even more straight.

So far I was very excited (the results looked so far better then when I picked it up from the guitar service shop). I mounted everything back (except the shim!), strung the La Bella's, set up the bridge, and measured a 4mm for the E string and just below 3mm for the A - D - G string, measured from the 12th fret wire to the string. I did everything yesterday evening and this morning all strings where still tuned perfectly and I measured the same numbers. Lowering the E string to a +-3mm doesn't look so easy so far, lowering the bridge saddle gives a rattle from the 14th fret and further, perhaps filing the nut?

For me personally, the playability is perfect with a fret-to-string distance of around 3mm at the 12th fret, however what are your thoughts of the obtained results so far?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

If you’re happy with it and it plays like you want, that’s what counts. Everyone has different preferences. I tend to pluck pretty hard and had a friend with a bass that was set up amazingly low and I almost couldn’t play it without a lot of string rattle. Now hopefully, it will stay where it is over some time.

You mentioned a rattle further up the neck, changing the nut slot heights will only affect the first fret action. It could be an uneven fret or one or two other possibilities.

 

[TomB]

If you’re happy with it and it plays like you want, that’s what counts. Everyone has different preferences. I tend to pluck pretty hard and had a friend with a bass that was set up amazingly low and I almost couldn’t play it without a lot of string rattle. Now hopefully, it will stay where it is over some time.

You mentioned a rattle further up the neck, changing the nut slot heights will only affect the first fret action. It could be an uneven fret or one or two other possibilities.

...or a “ski jump”. Without any pics, it’s hard to know. Def don’t file the nut if there’s no open-string buzz. I’ll be interested in knowing how it does over time. Moral of the story, IME: ALWAYS provide back-bow pressure to “de-stress” the truss rod before tightening it. Usually a vice isn’t needed, but I’m glad it worked and I’m glad you’re happy!

 

[Zarin]

...or a “ski jump”. Without any pics, it’s hard to know. Def don’t file the nut if there’s no open-string buzz. I’ll be interested in knowing how it does over time. Moral of the story, IME: ALWAYS provide back-bow pressure to “de-stress” the truss rod before tightening it. Usually a vice isn’t needed, but I’m glad it worked and I’m glad you’re happy!

Thanks for your advise, I have no experience with a sky jump. It looks like a kind of shim you have to place in the pocket? I completely loosened the truss rod before I put the back bow pressure on the neck and tightened it when it was slightly back bowed, perhaps I need to repeat the process again and keep the neck clamped overnight before I tighten the truss rod. For now I will leave everything as it is and also this morning all string measurements were still the same.

 

[TomB]

Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps