[sfx] Micro Thumpinator test and survey

[alec]

For the test, I'd play through a cranked LPF like a Xerograph, split the signal after that, apply the mThump to one and DI both.

 

[Vandy]

The following is the "illustration" that provides me with everything that I need to know about the efficiency gain realised by placing an [sfx] micro-Thumpinator in a signal chain:
[sfx] micro-Thumpinator - YouTube

 

[icecycle66]

The following is the "illustration" that provides me with everything that I need to know about the efficiency gain realised by placing an [sfx] micro-Thumpinator in a signal chain:
[sfx] micro-Thumpinator - YouTube

Yeah, I don't like that the only video out there is by the maker.

Here is another one.
[sfx] Microthumpinator video demo 1 - YouTube

And one more.
[sfx] Microthumpinator video demo 2 - YouTube

I'll get around to the graphic display later this week and put up another poll.

 

[boomertech]

Yeah, I don't like that the only video out there is by the maker.

Here is another one.
[sfx] Microthumpinator video demo 1 - YouTube

And one more.
[sfx] Microthumpinator video demo 2 - YouTube

I'll get around to the graphic display later this week and put up another poll.

Sometimes the maker/builder/designer is the BEST person to demonstrate their product. They know exactly what their product was designed for and will be able to best demonstrate how well it performs that task.

If they are honest, as I believe Max is, then there shouldn’t be a question if what they are demonstrating is less then what they are advertising.

-Frank

 

[icecycle66]

Sometimes the maker/builder/designer is the BEST person to demonstrate their product. They know exactly what their product was designed for and will be able to best demonstrate how well it performs that task.

If they are honest, as I believe Max is, then there shouldn’t be a question if what they are demonstrating is less then what they are advertising.

-Frank

Who's questioning that it does or doesn't do what it was advertised to do?

 

[boomertech]

Yeah, I don't like that the only video out there is by the maker.

I may have missed what your point is. But when someone makes a statement like that, there is an underlying implication that there is a doubt that what the manufacturer is claiming or demonstrating is less than honest or over hyped.

-Frank

 

[icecycle66]

I may have missed what your point is. But when someone makes a statement like that, there is an underlying implication that there is a doubt that what the manufacturer is claiming or demonstrating is less than honest or over hyped.

-Frank

Stop looking for underlying meanings. I don't like when the manufacturer is the only one with a video of their product. That's it.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

That's the same implication I read in your statement.

 

[caeman]

In a perfect world, all makers have a good quality demo available to watch, and you have initiated users doing so, as well.

This ain't a perfect world.

There are quite a few user demos that, to put it frankly, suck. Bad sound quality, bad post production, and bad examples that don't fully show a pedal's capabilities.

The mThump is meant to tame the thumps and higher volume, stronger use. It ain't for dainty playing. That is why I traded mine away. I am low gain and volume.

 

[MSUsousaphone]

Haha. That's what you get for coming in here and not liking the flavor of our kool-aid! Rawr.

FWIW, I get what you're saying. And I prefer not to listen to demos by the manufacturers. Did someone really say "sometimes those are the best?" Ha. And movie stars really look that good in real life, too. Not anything like the average person. Sheesh.

But that's enough defending you. There is something in this pedal that no one can hear. Because no one can hear it, you can't disprove it now, can you? And since this forum has decided that we will believe that this magical pixie dust DOES indeed work, we shall continue to fight you with semantics and to nitpick over observations that you make. So stop trying to prove away our magic with your silly little science.

Neenerneenerneener.

 

[bongomania]

I cant tell if your sarcasm is serious... or sarcastic. ???

Let me answer as though I have no sense of humor--apologies in advance.

"Science" would be feeding signal that is known to contain content below 31 Hz into the filter, and measuring the output. Feeding in a bunch of signal that is possibly all above 31 Hz is just farting into the wind.

Now, in this video [sfx] Microthumpinator video demo 2 - YouTube he slaps some, potentially producing the thumps we've been taking about; and in fact it looks to me like the mThump is visibly reducing the amount that the cones jump.

I'm not trying to put down any attempts to test the Koolaid; just trying to level-set about what is and isn't a realistic test or set of expectations.

 

[MSUsousaphone]

It was a little bit of satire on both ends.

I had a MicroThump. I felt that it did everything that it said it would do. But that's the problem with it. It ONLY does what it says it will do. Some people get it and are in disbelief that it doesn't do more.....since it costs so ******* much. They hear that it blocks subsonic sounds that we can't hear....but also that it tightens the low end...and they think "surely this tightening of my low end must be worth this dough". Lots of people are cool dropping that kind of cash on a grossly overpriced but very useful thing, others are in such shock that it doesn't at least do something magical that that can be heard that they start to trying to find ways to justify the money they threw into it. And when that search brings up nothing....resentment.

Maybe that's just 1am Sousie getting all existential and stuff...I do that. And maybe it's all just anecdotal. I know I couldn't justify that price tag. If that thing went down in price, I would totally snatch one up, again.

 

[dannybuoy]

I don't think there is a problem with the price compared to other boutique pedals. This thing is hand built and unique in it's operation. There are plenty of germanium boost pedals out there that use fewer components that cost more than this!

 

[Silent Fly]

Thanks for your interest in the [sfx] micro-Thumpinator. I’ll try to address all points in the posts. I some cases I broke the posts in small parts in order to make my answers clearer.

/// The test
I am not 100% sure I understand how the test was carried out so I can comment up to a certain point.

The only thing I would recommend is that any element in the signal chain need to go down below the low-B otherwise the test wouldn’t be very accurate. This also apply to the reproduction of the recorded signal and its encoding/decoding.

The other thing to take into account is that if you can’t hear the difference with your computer speakers or without high quality headphones, the micro-Thumpinator is doing its job.

The thumpinator filters sub sonic content. I doubt you would hear a difference on a YouTube clip.

I agree. YouTube is not the best place to assess audio difference. Especially at the limit of the frequency response of the majority of the audio equipment.

(...) However string attack is very much a part and parcel to the issue when considering signal below 30Hz. (...) There is also a lot more of the subsonic signal in the actual attack of the note than in the sustained portion, unless some additional processing is added. (...)

It's a filter, and it has a steep rolloff starting at about 31 Hz. It is not dynamic. The reason I/we commented on soft notes vs huge spiky thumps is that there is nothing below 31 Hz happening in any normal musical content from a bass (assuming open B is the lowest note). The subsonic content only occurs if you percussively pluck/slap/hit the strings in a way that creates a "thump" that's not a part of the frequencies of the actual note.

+1

Moreover, the majority of the subsonic noise is in the attack of the note (thump). This is in the first few milliseconds. It can be very difficult seeing it in the video with the frequency analysis.

/// [sfx] Video

Yeah, I don't like that the only video out there is by the maker. (...)

I may have missed what your point is. But when someone makes a statement like that, there is an underlying implication that there is a doubt that what the manufacturer is claiming or demonstrating is less than honest or over hyped.

That's the same implication I read in your statement.

I interpreted the statement in the same way but it is not the end of the world.

Ironically, the statement is also unfounded (I don’t blame you for that; there was no way for you to know). The main reason is that the video was edited and published by [sfx] but it was given to me by one of my customers. The idea of making a video was entirely his. I asked him the raw video after I saw his editing.

Not unexpectedly, other videos show similar results.

/// What it does

(...) I had a MicroThump. I felt that it did everything that it said it would do. But that's the problem with it. It ONLY does what it says it will do.

This is the greatest compliment I can receive from my work – thanks.

This is the way [sfx] operates. No mojo, no magic, no hype – professional equipment that do what they are supposed to do.

/// The magic

Some people get it and are in disbelief that it doesn't do more.....

I take your word for it but my experience is quite different. My customers write to me with enthusiastic feedbacks about what the micro-Thumpinator does. So far nobody complained that it doesn’t do more.

(...) others are in such shock that it doesn't at least do something magical that that can be heard that they start to trying to find ways to justify the money they threw into it. And when that search brings up nothing....resentment. (...)

I have to take your word for it and I have no doubt you have more than one case to substantiate your claims but I have a very different experience.

You are of course entitled to your opinions and I have a great respect for them but there is one thing that doesn’t entirely convince me in your reasoning.

You said that some people are not happy with their purchase. If this was the case I can’t understand why: a) None of them wrote to me complaining. b) Under the terms and conditions, it is possible to return any [sfx] product and get the money back – no questions asked. So far, I had zero returns. Let me be clear: everyone, with no exceptions, kept the micro-Thumpinator with a substantial number of them sending me unsolicited positive feedbacks.

Last but not least, I never claimed that the micro-Thumpinator can do “something magical”. I am in the business of designing and building professional audio equipments. Magic is not my area of expertise.

/// Price

.....since it costs so ******* much. (...) Lots of people are cool dropping that kind of cash on a grossly overpriced but very useful thing, others are in such shock that it doesn't at least do something magical that that can be heard that they start to trying to find ways to justify the money they threw into it. (...)

I suspect that the price people pay in the US is somehow different from the price paid in Europe because of the exchange rate. Having said that, I would like to point out a few things:

- [sfx] is not in the business of making low cost units. Other companies like Behringer do it much better than [sfx] ever could. If I can choose between making a cheap unit with low quality parts and making the same unit more expensive and use high quality parts, the doubt doesn’t cross my mind – quality comes first. If there was no market for high quality products I would close [sfx] without hesitation.

- As I see it, there is a difference between overpriced and expensive. Overpriced is an objective assessment. Expensive is subjective.

To determine if an item is overpriced it necessary at least a comparison with another item that performs the same function. In my opinion, saying that an item is overpriced without offering any comparison is, at the very least, unfair.

Expensive, on the other hand, is a subjective assessment. In a nutshell, if I have $1 in my pocket and I need to buy a $5 item, the item is for me expensive. If I had $10000 in my pocket, the same item would be cheap. Does this make the item overpriced (or underpriced)?

This is why I prefer to say, “more than I can afford”, “more than I am ready to spend” instead of “expensive”.

In other words, I would never say that a Ferrari is overpriced but I prefer to say that it costs more than I can afford. If I had Bill Gates’ bank account I doubt I would find a Ferrari expensive.

I know I couldn't justify that price tag. If that thing went down in price, I would totally snatch one up, again.

It won’t go do in price – sorry.

----------

I hope the above answers to the questions/comments. If you have more questions please feel free to ask. You can also contact me directly (emails no PMs please) for more specific questions.

 

[bassbrad]

As far as price goes I am very frugal, the mThump is the most expensive thing on my pedal board (sometimes frugal is cheap too) it's worth every penny to me because it protects my precious amps and speakers from damage from the thump and it is a nice buffer amp. It is also very valuable for recording, there are some sessions where the mThump is all I need in the signal chain.

Don't ever close on us Max, many of us appreciate your work and quality of component and build.
Nobody I have seen does work nicer than Max!

 

[icecycle66]

[sfx] Micro Thumpinator demo 3
[sfx] Micro Thumpinator demo 3 - YouTube

[sfx] Micro Thumpinator demo 4
[sfx] Micro Thumpinator demo 4 - YouTube


Cheese wiz people.

I wish everyone got this fired up about whether or not that distortion pedal over there was demoed correctly or not. It’s a good thing Pro Guitar Shop and GearManDude don’t get this much flak for putting their demos out. I’m just trying to get more information out there, one way or the other, good or bad, whether I like the thing or not. Now there is more than one video and Bongo’s blessing out there for the [sfx] Micro Thumpinator, take it for what you will.

Bongo, not to dis you or anything. I actually greatly appreciate the work you’ve done and respect your comments anywhere I see them; whether I agree or not. There isn’t really a better review/explanation of the Thumpinator than yours and it’s the only one that stands out...ever. Now I hope this thread will serve as many other perspectives.

Up until now, I challenge anyone to find a demo of the mThump other than what was put out by [sfx]. Yeah, it’s hard to demo this pedal (even though it isn't really a pedal in the classic sense) unless you are in person. The only thing I can compare it to is its arch-nemeses the DOD Meat Box. Both of these tools can only really be given justice in person. If you don’t like the data and information I’ve provided then get off your butt and put your own together. If you have a better EQ viewer than Reaper, then show us what you’ve got.


For what it is worth, I like the mThump. I can hear a difference when I play. I can feel, really, a difference when I put my speakers face down on the floor and lay next to them while I play. It does something.

Hell, I don’t know, if I had to guess I would say that it cuts 30Hz and below and doesn’t dick around with anything else.

[sfx] stuff is expensive. I cannot justify buying an mThump if you can’t afford it. If you don’t lay down with your speakers to play or have some big time hi-fi show to put on, maybe the mThump isn’t for you and you don’t ever need to worry about it. But it is Max’s company and he can charge whatever he wants for it. Don’t like it? Make your own.

Max, you will not be getting mine back. And until something better comes along, my mThump will be snuggly placed after my octave pedal.

 

[bongomania]

FTR, I have made a lot of posts about how inappropriately distortion pedals are demoed.

If it amuses you to hear, I've gotten (almost) nothing but grief for that. There are a few tube-amp worshipers here who practically spat on me; and one in particular became a ******* personal enemy over it.

 

[boomertech]

Years ago I was supporting the speaker industry. Because of the issues I have with my hands I could only play with light gauge strings. Light gauge strings have more of a tendency to be flabby with the way I played. This flabbiness caused my speakers to over extend to the point of damage. I destroyed a 15” Black Widow (melted voice coil) a 15” EV (distorted the alignment and had the coil former scrubbing on the pole piece) and at one show I blew out three of four of my 10” Eminence speakers during our first set (one of them actually pulled the surround from the frame). I finally smartened up and started using compressors and limiters to prevent speaker damage. I like compressors so this was all good for me, but if I didn’t like compressors then mThump would have been a savior. It really, really sucks when your speakers fail at a show.

If you want to learn more about the other benefits of a filter like this that go beyond the obvious, look up filter group delay.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

Hey Cyrus,

Have you experimented with the mThump before a compressor? I was thinking that they may compliment each other really well and allow the comp to operate more transparently (less work).

-Frank

 

[bongomania]

Have you experimented with the mThump before a compressor? I was thinking that they may compliment each other really well and allow the comp to operate more transparently (less work).

Yes I have, and you are exactly right. Especially for very percussive playing. It can even reduce/eliminate the benefit of multi-band (as opposed to normal single-band) compression when slapping.