Double Bass Shen SB80 1/2 or Shen SB190 5/8?

[DizzyK2]

My daughter has been playing bass for over a year now after transitioning from cello. We've been renting a 1/4 bass for her the whole time. She now needs to move up a size. The bass shop ran the numbers and it was cheaper to purchase the 1/2 with our current built up credit than to rent it for another year.
3/4 is too big for her while the 5/8 would last her a long time. After purchasing the 1/2 Shen80, we just got a call from the shop saying that there is a Shen 190 5/8 now in stock and suggested we try it out. Obviously the cost will go from $1400 to about $4000.
My daughter is currently in 7th grade, but has made All County last year and this year as a bassist so she's serious about this instrument. She also formed her own orchestra of 8 girls over the summer to play at local events. I think she is currently Suzuki level 4+.

I need some advice on whether to jump to the 5/8 now or going to that size in about 6 months or possibly to 3/4 depending on how tall she gets. Or should I just have her stay with the 1/2 size? Her current Shen sounds really good!

Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks!

Rich

 

[John Sprague]

My daughter's the bassist, I'm just the ATM. - I know the feeling!

Here are some considerations to add to your decision:

The tonal difference will be pretty obvious, the 190 is a hybrid instrument with fully carved top and solid ribs, and stands up to some 3/4 instruments. Aspiring players are encouraged by better sounding instruments.

The 80 is more durable than the 190. When you start getting into hybrid and carved instruments, you enter a new realm of instrument care that all players reach eventually.

• You will need to make sure your home has reasonable humidity, and add a humidifier to the house, or at least the room the bass is stored in if necessary. MD probably gets dry in the winters, so once again the Dad ATM goes into full swing on providing humidity.
• Boys are worse than girls in my experience (I have one of each), but still a seventh grader can be pretty rough on an instrument. The 190 will need to be treated with the same respect as a carved instrument, whereas the 80 as you know can be literally pounded with a fist without breaking. It's up to you to judge her maturity level in that regard. For instance, my son was and still is a bull in a china shop, and will probably never change. My daughter is very careful, but still a klutz who could barely sit in a chair at the table without falling out of it. If you think your daughter can navigate hallways and such without bashing it against the door jams, you should be alright.

The biggest question of course is her teacher's opinion. If she's studying privately, her teacher's opinion is the most important factor. The string length difference between the two is an inch and 5/8. If she's not studying privately, my recommendation is getting a teacher instead of the more expensive bass if the choice is to be made between the two. Nothing will accelerate her progress like private lessons, and I doubt she can get into the higher levels of playing groups without them.

The last is how does the instrument feel in her hands?

Good luck, and congratulations to your daughter on her success and drive!

 

[DizzyK2]

John,

Thank you so much for your input. She currently has a private teacher who also teaches her two other best friends who also play the bass. The 3 girls go to all the auditions together and are in the same local youth orchestra (Potomac Valley Youth Orchestra - PVYO). We'll check with her private teacher to see what she thinks.

Thank you.

Rich

 

[Remyd]

TL;DR - Don't buy the 5/8.

If you already bought a (assuming new) half size, then why are you even asking? If you've got the half, use the half, but don't upgrade every six months - it doesn't help and may actually hurt progress due to the different scale. There's absolutely no need to size up 1/4-1/2-5/8-3/4-7/8 and there's also no need for 99.99% of kids to have a carved bass. Transitioning from 1/4 to 3/4 is very common for students.

The longest service symphonic bassist just passed away a month or two ago. She was almost 100 years old, 5'2" and played a 3/4 (a skinny one with technique adjustments, but still).

My advice is to ditch/sell/trade-in all the fractionals and buy the best (used) laminate 3/4 your kiddo gets along with and you can afford. Rent until you buy, no matter which is "cheaper", and never buy anything but a 3/4, unless you have a legit reason, at which point you won't need my advice.

EDIT: As an aside, that sales pitch with the "cheaper"? That's misleading nonsense targeted to get you to buy instead of rent. Any $ you save will be offset by the depreciation on a student instrument. There's no value proposition if you're buying something that will be outgrown in 6 months and sell for less that the purchase price, just a loss of whatever credit you've built up.

Incremental upgrades are expensive, but if the kid is good, she's good, and you should consider that in your instrument upgrade choices. There are at least 5 years left in her school career. Recommend considering A->C rather than A->Bb->B->C. I have a (5'4") 7th grader at about the same all-whatever level, but she plays flute. Had to shell out more than a little money for the flute upgrade, but we went starter->collegiate, not starter->post-starter->advanced-starter->beginner->advanced-beginner->etc which would have ended up at the same instrument but quadruple the cost over double the time with the player having to switch instruments over and over while not getting the benefit of the better playablity until the very end.

As far as the 5/8 is concerned, there is no scenario where I would personally pay $4000 for an off-sized instrument, even if Stratavari made it out of clouds and diamonds and it sings like an angel, not to mention that it has a carved top. Carved/Hybrid basses are on the fragile side, and 7th graders need durable instruments. I don't know that particular model, and it might sound amazeballs, but there's no need to compete on tone at the student level until much later in high school if even then, and the difference in playablity will either be incremental or not-at-all and easily offset by avoiding the (multiple) startlingly expensive repair bills for cracked tops caused by knocking over the bass on a orch bus or on stage or in the rehearsal room, or running into a wall, or being tripped over by a drummer, or whatever other disaster that will ABSOLUTELY 100% happen.

3/4 sell faster, retain value longer (often you can buy a nice used bass, play it for 10 years, then sell it at a profit - that's not a thing that happens with the little ones) are in much more demand (and thus much easier to sell or trade when it's time), and sound better (vast majority of cases). There's a reason that 85% of all the basses are the same size.

Welcome to TB!

 

[chief bogan]

I'd second the suggestion not to go to the more expensive 5/8 carved top. I'd recommend taking some of the money you save and spending it to get the bass really well set up by someone who knows what they are doing. It is amazing how badly set up basses often are, even in well known shops, and the set up makes a huge difference to the playability of any bass. In the DC area, Michael Shank in Elizabethtown (about 2 hour drive to PA) or Tom Wolf in VA have very good reputations for working and setting up basses.

 

[Super Iridium]

I can recommend Mike Shank highly! He will set uo whatever you have, and when you are ready to buy a 3/4 size, he will have exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Mister Boh]

I can recommend Mike Shank highly! He will set uo whatever you have, and when you are ready to buy a 3/4 size, he will have exactly what you are looking for.

Yeah, the Shanks are great. Worth the drive for sure.

 

[DizzyK2]

When we rented our 1/4, we were lucky enough to have a fully carved bass with an awesome tone. So my daughter is actually used to a fully carved bass for the past year.
We just checked with her private teacher and she prefers the tone of a full carved for my daughter's current skill level. Especially hearing my daughter's friends Shen 200 next to her Shen 80 in today's class. So we might look at a 1/2 size hybrid or full carved instead. Our vendor is Bob's House of Bass so I think our setup is fine.

 

[Super Iridium]

We just checked with her private teacher and she prefers the tone of a full carved for my daughter's current skill level. Especially hearing my daughter's friends Shen 200 next to her Shen 80 in today's class. So we might look at a 1/2 size hybrid or full carved instead. Our vendor is Bob's House of Bass so I think our setup is fine.

I am not a very good player (getting better every day though), but I can highly recommend the fully carved Shen 200 over a hybrid or full-ply model. It's not just the sound quality, although the difference is sound is immediately noticeable. To me, the fully carved model is just easier to coax sound out of. The bass is "ready" to give you the sound that you want even with less than perfect contact with the strings or other technical flaws, and that gives me the feedback I need to keep working on my playing. In other words, I'm sure that a pro could make any halfway decent bass sound amazing, but I'm glad to have one that is at least a little more forgiving when it comes to the natural resonance of the instrument.