Shipping Issue.. Venting, but would love some feedback as well.

[buldog5151bass]

1. It's two months later.
2. After it was received, it was shipped again, this time overseas.
3. You disclosed the crack.

I can't see you owing the buyer anything.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I didn't ship it overseas. The buyer had family in my state - I sent there. I believe he then made arrangements to have it sent overseas.

You didn't even read my posts. I never said you shipped it overseas. Is the bass still in your home state?

 

[Wesley R]

I would suspect that their are very people here who would find a bass they might want, interface with the seller, and go to the effort to get a relative to re-ship it and not look at it upon it's arrival.

Maybe the guy was in the hospital or some such.

 

[Maxdusty]

Also I guess it's common for a neck to crack at that spot so the finish crack and the neck crack could be totally unrelated. Were the strings loosened or tuned when you shipped it?

 

[JRA]

this is tough stuff.

please clarify:
- pic 1 in post #15 is the "crack" before shipping across state?
- pics 2 and 3 in post #15 is the damage the buyer is reporting after overseas shipment?

thanks.

 

[Lesfunk]

The simple fact that the buyer proceeded to ship to his own country takes the seller out of the equation.
He accepted the bass from you, then shipped it elsewhere.
The seller is free and clear of the Whole business

 

[Turnaround]

There are two sets of cracks that are unrelated. The first photo shows what looks like a single finish crack at the top end of the neck pointing towards the headstock. The subsequent photos show multiple cracks in the finish and a fracture of the wood beyond the original crack. The damage indicated in the latter pics is not as a result of the original crack expanding - they are almost certainly the result of a subsequent shock to the headstock. This kind of damage is seen frequently on instruments that have been mishandled in shipping.

 

[Lesfunk]

There are two sets of cracks that are unrelated. The first photo shows what looks like a single finish crack at the top end of the neck pointing towards the headstock. The subsequent photos show multiple cracks in the finish and a fracture of the wood beyond the original crack. The damage indicated in the latter pics is not as a result of the original crack expanding - they are almost certainly the result of a subsequent shock to the headstock. This kind of damage is seen frequently on instruments that have been mishandled in shipping.

ABSOLUTELY

 

[EatS1stBassist]

there might have been some damage underneath the paint, very hard to tell though - and then his pictures, looks like someone wanted to check out the crack and removed the paint with a screwdriver or something to see what was underneath.

Yeah I agree or maybe pulled back real hard on the headstock to see if it was solid and it cracked it. I would cover half of the cost and not a cent more. To long down the road out of your hands.

 

[Lesfunk]

The simple fact that the buyer proceeded to ship to his own country takes the seller out of the equation.
He accepted the bass from you, then shipped it elsewhere.
The seller is free and clear of the Whole business

You're no responsible for the buyers lack of due diligence.
Contrary to popular belief these days, the buyer has responsibility also

 

[FugaziBomb]

So I had a bass for sale - gentleman reached out, and made me an offer I ultimately accepted. He was located in the same state as I was, as he had family about 4 hours from where I was located. I packed the bass up, it was in the case, and shipped it. I pack inside the case, tape the case, pack outside, the whole nine yards. I border on the neurotic when I pack. Again, it was single day transit and arrived the following day. The bass was shipped interstate, but the buyer was intending to make arrangements himself to ship said bass overseas to his home there. Cool, I didn't want to grapple with overseas shipping, so that worked for me.

Now, there was what I thought was a finish crack on the bass, near the nut. It never moved, the bass played beautifully and ALWAYS stayed in tune for the 6+ years I owned it. I never had it checked further, since the bass never gave me any issues. Ever. Heck, when I bought it, it traveled from coast to coast and arrived to me safe and sound. Prior to the sale, I took pics, sent and made mention of it. All was fine.

So I sell and ship the bass this past October. On the last day of December, I get a message complete with pictures. The neck cracked move severely near the small finish crack that I mentioned.

My heart sunk.

Now, the buyer has been nice, and wants $400 to fix the bass. Of course, that's better than the whole amount which I don't have. It is fixable and that is a blessing. But funds are low, below low, hence why I sold what in my eyes was a beyond treasured piece in the first place.

So I have been selling this that and the other thing to raise the funds. Kinda sucks. Adversity builds character I guess.

But wow, 2 months later? Any insurance (over $1000) I had on it is moot as it shipped and was received with nary a word almost 2 months ago. I wonder if this happened when he shipped it from my state to its overseas destination. I will probably never know.

If I was having an item shipped to me and I wasn't present, I would certainly have the box opened and inspected. Wouldn't you?

That said, I feel terrible. I am thrilled he is getting it fixed - it is an awesome bass and deserves it.

I dunno. But I'll make good regardless. Just bouncing my experience off you fine folks.

Kinda makes me never want to sell anything again. At least not a bass.

Thanks

I sincerely hope you don't send the buyer one red cent. It is completely on him to verify the item was not damaged upon receiving it - something he failed to do. At this point he is trying to pass responsibility to someone else for failing to do his due diligence. If he makes a big deal about it, direct him to TalkBass and we'll rough him up a little for ya.

 

[EatS1stBassist]

You're no responsible for the buyers lack of due diligence.
Contrary to popular belief these days, the buyer has responsibility also

I think this is the truth of the matter!!

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

You still may be on the hook. Don't they keep transactions open for 90 days now?

Paypal claims are good for 180 days, six months.

Get some pictures of the shipping box OP. That is what any courier would ask for. The bass definitely took a serious blow somewhere and the box is the indicator of it if happened during shipping.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'm going to chime in to argue the opposite position. If it is clear that you (unknowingly) sold him a damaged instrument, I think the right thing to do would be to at least contribute to the cost of repair. Do you know how he came up with the $400 figure? If that's what he was told by a luthier that it would cost to fix it, I would offer to split that cost with him.

Ordinarily I would agree that the statue of limitations has run out after two months, but in this case he has a good "excuse" as to why it took him that long to check it out.

I tend to disagree, but I see your reasoning.

 

[lfmn16]

I always follow up on sales to make sure they got the instrument and are satisfied. That way I have it in writing and they can't come back and say there was an issue at a later time. Maybe a lesson for next time.

 

[lfmn16]

I sincerely hope you don't send the buyer one red cent. It is completely on him to verify the item was not damaged upon receiving it - something he failed to do. At this point he is trying to pass responsibility to someone else for failing to do his due diligence. If he makes a big deal about it, direct him to TalkBass and we'll rough him up a little for ya.

Good point. By shipping it to his home country, presumably without checking for damage, he robs the OP of the opportunity to submit an insurance claim.

 

[DanBass]

Paypal claims are good for 180 days, six months.

Get some pictures of the shipping box OP. That is what any courier would ask for. The bass definitely took a serious blow somewhere and the box is the indicator of it if happened during shipping.

I have pics of the box prior to me shipping.. I packed the case with cloth rags, around the headstock, the body, and all around, with no movement.. also taped the case shut, to prevent any accidental opening during transit. Then I bubble wrapped the case like a mummy. and packed all around it as well with the same wrapping.

I am looking for pics of the box pre-shipment.. I have not seen it after it left - when it arrived - or the state the box is in now.. I am still trying to get more info. There are still some question marks... where was the damaged finally discovered? That's a biggie for me.

Again, I don't mind making good, but I feel like the delay robbed me of options. PayPal, UPS, etc.

From what I understand the bass is now overseas.

 

[Greyvagabond]

If it took two months for him to discover the crack, and therefore you can not longer get the insurance related to the shipping, than it is HIS, not YOUR, fault. You owe him nothing; you disclosed the crack, the crack wasn't structural and didn't cause any problems, you packed it properly, you insured it, and you shipped it. He can't now come back two months later, and potentially after another overseas shipping in the interim, and claim the crack is somehow your fault. Don't give him anything.

If it cracked during the initial shipping, he could have opened it then, discovered the crack, and made an insurance claim. If it is too late to do that now, especially considering the intervening shipping (which could have easily caused the crack, rather than the initial shipping company under which you bought the insurance policy), that's his fault.

 

[JZQuantum]

You disclosed the issue in your ad, correct? Unless you offered a warranty of 2 months or greater, this is not your issue anymore.

If on the other hand you didn't disclose this crack or your personal history with this bass then you are on the hook for compensating the buyer.

If you wrote in your ad "CONUS shipping" or something similar then you should not be liable for any shipping or damages if the owner then shipped to non-CONUS. At some point, the bass belongs to the buyer.

I buy and sell fairly equally and often here on TB and I prefer doing business on TB by a long shot as compared to reverb or ebay. I consider myself very fair to TBers as a seller as I give lower prices to TBers, because I usually get the same in return as a buyer from other TBers. I've never owned or sold a bass with any serious structural or cosmetic damage, but if I did I would fix the bass professionally before selling it, disclosing my fixes.

That said, the onus has to be transferred to the buyer if he/she was aware of the issues and if the bass was in as-described and then shipped the bass on his own to another country.

This is partially the reason I always prefer CONUS shipping...to minimize shipping transit time and potential shipping damage as much as possible.

All of this said, because this is TB, there would be nothing wrong with helping the buyer out with the repair cost, but I would not offer more than 50% of the repair cost if I felt I wasn't negligent. This would share the risks of what happened on both sides.

 

[DanBass]

You disclosed the issue in your ad, correct? Unless you offered a warranty of 2 months or greater, this is not your issue anymore.

If on the other hand you didn't disclose this crack or your personal history with this bass then you are on the hook for compensating the buyer.

If you wrote in your ad "CONUS shipping" or something similar then you should not be liable for any shipping or damages if the owner then shipped to non-CONUS. At some point, the bass belongs to the buyer.

I buy and sell fairly equally and often here on TB and I prefer doing business on TB by a long shot as compared to reverb or ebay. I consider myself very fair to TBers as a seller as I give lower prices to TBers, because I usually get the same in return as a buyer from other TBers. I've never owned or sold a bass with any serious structural or cosmetic damage, but if I did I would fix the bass professionally before selling it, disclosing my fixes.

That said, the onus has to be transferred to the buyer if he/she was aware of the issues and if the bass was in as-described and then shipped the bass on his own to another country.

This is partially the reason I always prefer CONUS shipping...to minimize shipping transit time and potential shipping damage as much as possible.

All of this said, because this is TB, there would be nothing wrong with helping the buyer out with the repair cost, but I would not offer more than 50% of the repair cost if I felt I wasn't negligent. This would share the risks of what happened on both sides.

Hello, and thanks!

I sent a picture of the crack prior to the sale. It was acknowledged. It never caused me any issues structurally,the bass played beautifully, stayed in tune, etc. That is why I gathered it was a finish crack.. I agreed to ship in our same state. He was in turn sending it overseas at some point. (agree, I wouldn't have shipped the bass overseas.. don't want to grapple with that for a myriad of reasons).. It was shipped and received the following day as it literally went down the state turnpike. Any shipping beyond that, I was not involved in.