I had a beautiful Suhr J that had a tiny finish crack at that usual place in the heel most Fenders get and during the flight East it expanded like 5 inches . I cashed back the buyer 500 bucks . It was painful but that is what we quoted for a refin and both agreed it was fair . Sub zero temps in Winter at high altitudes is bad for finish cracks no question .
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Shipping Issue.. Venting, but would love some feedback as well.
- Thread starter DanBass
- Start date
I agree. You buy used, it's buyer beware. The lesson here is not only for buyers, but selllers as well. Personallly,I don't buy used unless I have it in hand, and I will only sell to a living breathing person that I can look in the eye.
As others have said, it's the buyers responsibility in my opinion. It was their choice to ship it the way they did- overseas without inspecting or repackaging before the second transit. Mayhe they didnt really get it 2 months until after you sent it, but you know what, that's the risk they took when they chose to set it up the way they did.
By not inspecting it before shipping internationally they threw away any chance they had to prove it was damaged in the initial shipping (the one the OP did). They dropped the ball hard and are trying to make you pay for their mistake. I wouldnt pay them anything!
By not inspecting it before shipping internationally they threw away any chance they had to prove it was damaged in the initial shipping (the one the OP did). They dropped the ball hard and are trying to make you pay for their mistake. I wouldnt pay them anything!
Huh? Did you not read this?
Subsequent shipment means it was later shipped by someone else, not the OP. Back to school for you!
You have some serious comprehension issues... that's exactly what I said!
Dude
You were asking the OP, in a sarky tone, if the bass was still in his home state... when he had said (I hate repeating myself but...
) it had been posted overseas already.Are you kidding? Or have you been glueing something in a non-ventilated room?
Uh-oh. PP will likely side with the buyer. They have to to maintain customer trust.
When I rcv a bass, it usually doesn't have the insurance that I put down every time. It's not cheap and thankfully I've had good luck so far. They might have slightly dropped the box.
If your conscious has you troubled, perhaps just pay the money to be a very nice upstanding seller who stands by his products.
If your conscious has you troubled, perhaps just pay the money to be a very nice upstanding seller who stands by his products.
That would be on the buyer. Your responsibility was to get it to his shipper in good condition. After that, it's no longer your responsibility.
I agree with the majority. That bass obviously took a hit after it left your hands. There is no way to know if that happened on your shipment within FL or his shipment overseas. Maybe it happened in-transit, or maybe he dropped it after he had it for a week?
I'd be inclined to tell him to pound sand (politely, of course). No way would I pay for the repair or even half of it. If I was feeling extremely generous, maybe I'd offer 25% of the repair cost (after you've gotten a quote from your local luthier to make sure his quote is realistic). I'm not an attorney, but if you make any offer to reimburse the buyer in any way, you may be opening the door to be stuck with providing a full refund if he decides to play hardball. Proceed with caution.
Maybe offer a refund if he pays to ship it back to you at his expense? Or he keeps the bass, and you offer to settle for what the return shipping amount would have cost? Assuming he agrees nothing was your fault and will make no further claims against you.
I'd be inclined to tell him to pound sand (politely, of course). No way would I pay for the repair or even half of it. If I was feeling extremely generous, maybe I'd offer 25% of the repair cost (after you've gotten a quote from your local luthier to make sure his quote is realistic). I'm not an attorney, but if you make any offer to reimburse the buyer in any way, you may be opening the door to be stuck with providing a full refund if he decides to play hardball. Proceed with caution.
Maybe offer a refund if he pays to ship it back to you at his expense? Or he keeps the bass, and you offer to settle for what the return shipping amount would have cost? Assuming he agrees nothing was your fault and will make no further claims against you.
I think it's commendable that you're seriously considering paying the guy for the repair in these circumstances. I understand that you want to do the honest thing, so perhaps paying is the decision you can best live with given you can't be 100% sure the damage didn't happen during the first shipment.
However, in my opinion you don't actually have a moral or legal obligation here, so there would be no reason to feel guilty about not paying. Your responsibility ended at the point where your delivery was accepted and the buyer didn't inspect for damage immediately. Even if the delivery driver pressured them to sign and then left before they could open the package, the buyer could and should still have checked it over that first day, and there's no way they could've not seen the damage in the second photograph if it had happened by that point in the process.
If you decide not to pay and it comes down to a PayPal dispute, you've got proof that your shipment was delivered the next day (right?), so I'd provide that to PayPal and ask them to justify a claim two months after delivery. If it came to that you could also supply PayPal with before and after photos and say that it's implausible that the original slight crack spontaneously developed into the large crack in the second picture.
However, in my opinion you don't actually have a moral or legal obligation here, so there would be no reason to feel guilty about not paying. Your responsibility ended at the point where your delivery was accepted and the buyer didn't inspect for damage immediately. Even if the delivery driver pressured them to sign and then left before they could open the package, the buyer could and should still have checked it over that first day, and there's no way they could've not seen the damage in the second photograph if it had happened by that point in the process.
If you decide not to pay and it comes down to a PayPal dispute, you've got proof that your shipment was delivered the next day (right?), so I'd provide that to PayPal and ask them to justify a claim two months after delivery. If it came to that you could also supply PayPal with before and after photos and say that it's implausible that the original slight crack spontaneously developed into the large crack in the second picture.
MDBass
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- Nov 7, 2012
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So I had a bass for sale - gentleman reached out, and made me an offer I ultimately accepted. He was located in the same state as I was, as he had family about 4 hours from where I was located. I packed the bass up, it was in the case, and shipped it. I pack inside the case, tape the case, pack outside, the whole nine yards. I border on the neurotic when I pack. Again, it was single day transit and arrived the following day. The bass was shipped interstate, but the buyer was intending to make arrangements himself to ship said bass overseas to his home there. Cool, I didn't want to grapple with overseas shipping, so that worked for me.
Now, there was what I thought was a finish crack on the bass, near the nut. It never moved, the bass played beautifully and ALWAYS stayed in tune for the 6+ years I owned it. I never had it checked further, since the bass never gave me any issues. Ever. Heck, when I bought it, it traveled from coast to coast and arrived to me safe and sound. Prior to the sale, I took pics, sent and made mention of it. All was fine.
So I sell and ship the bass this past October. On the last day of December, I get a message complete with pictures. The neck cracked move severely near the small finish crack that I mentioned.
My heart sunk.
Now, the buyer has been nice, and wants $400 to fix the bass. Of course, that's better than the whole amount which I don't have. It is fixable and that is a blessing. But funds are low, below low, hence why I sold what in my eyes was a beyond treasured piece in the first place.
So I have been selling this that and the other thing to raise the funds. Kinda sucks. Adversity builds character I guess.
But wow, 2 months later? Any insurance (over $1000) I had on it is moot as it shipped and was received with nary a word almost 2 months ago. I wonder if this happened when he shipped it from my state to its overseas destination. I will probably never know.
If I was having an item shipped to me and I wasn't present, I would certainly have the box opened and inspected. Wouldn't you?
That said, I feel terrible. I am thrilled he is getting it fixed - it is an awesome bass and deserves it.
I dunno. But I'll make good regardless. Just bouncing my experience off you fine folks.
Kinda makes me never want to sell anything again. At least not a bass.
Thanks
No complaints until two months later means this isn't your problem.
Only if the bass had been damaged during its initial 1 day transit, and it had been promptly reported, would you be liable: no possible way to know where and how the damage occurred after two months and at least one additional courier which you had no dealings with.
Your concerns are reasonable.So I had a bass for sale - gentleman reached out, and made me an offer I ultimately accepted. He was located in the same state as I was, as he had family about 4 hours from where I was located. I packed the bass up, it was in the case, and shipped it. I pack inside the case, tape the case, pack outside, the whole nine yards. I border on the neurotic when I pack. Again, it was single day transit and arrived the following day. The bass was shipped interstate, but the buyer was intending to make arrangements himself to ship said bass overseas to his home there. Cool, I didn't want to grapple with overseas shipping, so that worked for me.
Now, there was what I thought was a finish crack on the bass, near the nut. It never moved, the bass played beautifully and ALWAYS stayed in tune for the 6+ years I owned it. I never had it checked further, since the bass never gave me any issues. Ever. Heck, when I bought it, it traveled from coast to coast and arrived to me safe and sound. Prior to the sale, I took pics, sent and made mention of it. All was fine.
So I sell and ship the bass this past October. On the last day of December, I get a message complete with pictures. The neck cracked move severely near the small finish crack that I mentioned.
My heart sunk.
Now, the buyer has been nice, and wants $400 to fix the bass. Of course, that's better than the whole amount which I don't have. It is fixable and that is a blessing. But funds are low, below low, hence why I sold what in my eyes was a beyond treasured piece in the first place.
So I have been selling this that and the other thing to raise the funds. Kinda sucks. Adversity builds character I guess.
But wow, 2 months later? Any insurance (over $1000) I had on it is moot as it shipped and was received with nary a word almost 2 months ago. I wonder if this happened when he shipped it from my state to its overseas destination. I will probably never know.
If I was having an item shipped to me and I wasn't present, I would certainly have the box opened and inspected. Wouldn't you?
That said, I feel terrible. I am thrilled he is getting it fixed - it is an awesome bass and deserves it.
I dunno. But I'll make good regardless. Just bouncing my experience off you fine folks.
Kinda makes me never want to sell anything again. At least not a bass.
Thanks
Impossible to know if this happened after the item was received at the original destination and before its final destination.
THIS! I would also like to see a picture of the "package" as it arrived at the family member house and again what it looked like when the buyer finally got it in his hands. I smell a RAT!
I'll just reiterate what others have already posted.
First, once the bass was re-shipped, the OP's responsibility for any shipping damage was ended.
Second, that's not a $400 repair.
First, once the bass was re-shipped, the OP's responsibility for any shipping damage was ended.
Second, that's not a $400 repair.
If the buyer was willing to ship it overseas without inspection, I don't think you could be held responsible for something that might well have happened on the overseas flight, which you had nothing to do with. It's on the buyer that he trusted that what came in the box from you was intact, and there will never be a way to know if it was or not. He should have checked it before sending it on.
It is unfortunate that Paypal has such a long stretch, 6 months to file a claim against you. That is what I would be more worried about, myself. Not having dealt with a Paypal claim myself, I have read of Paypal heavily backing the buyers- So it is important that you have written documentation from him that he shipped the bass overseas after you shipped it to him or family members domestically. If he can't demonstrate that the damage came from your shipping leg of its international journey, then on what basis could they blame you? They took custody of the instrument and reshipped it- it is at the point that they received the bass at the destination you shipped it to that your responsibility ended.
This whole thing begins and ends with
"He received it and then shipped it onwards without opening it".
End of story. Seller is totally off the hook.
I really hope he doesn't convince Paypal to give you a hard time. Fight tooth and nail if they do because it's absurd that you would be liable given the facts.
"He received it and then shipped it onwards without opening it".
End of story. Seller is totally off the hook.
I really hope he doesn't convince Paypal to give you a hard time. Fight tooth and nail if they do because it's absurd that you would be liable given the facts.
