Short Scale Journey Didn't Last Long

[Billy Bob Bass]

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

I'm a novice, but I picked a Fender Mustang as my weapon of choice. I tried a full and medium scale basses but the more compact short scale bass just feels better to me. I "connect" with it more. You seem to have that with a long scale and that's great.

I don't feel cramped, but I'm not very big and my hands aren't either. The sound and string tension are different, but I'm totally fine with that. I'm not a fan of the Gibson and Les Paul style shaped guitars, especially when I play sitting down. The Fender Mustang shape always feels right to me. I think the neck dive with the USA Mustang is more than acceptable. I have no problems with it at all. The head stock of the PJ wants to dive more but I don't find it extremely heavy to hold. Both of these basses are light and comfortable to me anyway.

Maybe I'll try a violin bass some time...

 

[bobsax]

You should have tried a Hofner--either the Beatle Bass or the Club Bass---the most comfortable basses there are.

Are all Hofner short scale?

 

[koolbass]

That's certainly not a general issue. Have you not properly adjusted the intonation?

You're probably not familiar with the Jerry Jones (Danelectro) Longhorn bass. Even though there were some improvements over the original Danelectro Longhorn, Jerry Jones used a very similar bridge that is not capable of individual string adjustment.

I always adjust the intonation on the bridge with my Sadowsky and Mike Lull basses, but it's just not possible with my personal short scale.

Since the Jerry Jones instruments were made in Nashville (where I reside), I have a very good friend that worked there and he did an upgrade, (additional copper windings on the bridge p-up), to mine that was the same as was done for the bass player with the Wallflowers (Jakob Dylan's old band), and it has a very nice aggressive low end bite. I record with this bass quite frequently if the part does do much above the 6th or 7th fret. It records and sounds GREAT!

But I thought it was commonly known (at least to me) that a short scale bass does not allow for proper overtone series development within the length. 40" is optimal for overtones to fully develop, 36" is ok, and 34" (Fender scale) is barely usable. The shorter scales for those size strings and the pitches do not allow for fully developed overtone series. It's a musical acoustics (physics) thing that I read about many years ago, so I can't reference where I read it.

But I will emphasize that I'm a player, not a builder, so what I'm saying is just stuff I've heard or read about over the past several decades; take it with a grain of salt ... lol.

 

[JKos]

Jerry Jones used a very similar bridge that is not capable of individual string adjustment.

Ok, that is a problem with a particular design.

But I thought it was commonly known (at least to me) that a short scale bass does not allow for proper overtone series development within the length.

Then how does one explain all the wonderful recordings of short scale basses using all the neck without intonation problems?

 

[koolbass]

I don't get this. My Jerry Jones and my Danelectros (short-scale or long) can all be intonated just as well as my jazz bass. In all cases, on all fretted instruments there are certain places where a particular note at a particular fret isn't perfect, but that's life and physics. A change in my touch gets it there if need it there.

Yeah, I don't get that.

Sorry about that?!? My Jerry Jones Longhorn (short scale) can be slightly adjusted for intonation, but it still has pitch problems, to my ears, above the 6th or 7th frets.

It is nothing like my Sadowsky Vintage 5 Jazz or Mike Lull P5, which can both be adjusted very precisely and also have carbon fiber rods (for additional stiffness) in the neck. Which also means neither one has the dead spots common on Fender basses.

I use the Jerry Jones Longhorn quite a bit, but only in the studio. Mine has an upgraded bridge pickup, more windings, similar to the bass made for the bassist for Jakob Dylan's band, the Wallflowers. It has an incredible growl that I love, but I constantly hear intonation problems with that bass. If I cut the trax in my studio, I usually have to tune them, and I never use this bass live. It would drive me nuts. But I'll never part with it.

I have ten different basses (I do this for a living) and they're all different and serve different needs for me. I primarily use for live the Sadowsky, the Mike Lull, or a BSX EUB. The other basses get used, but not in live settings.

 

[JKos]

but it still has pitch problems, to my ears, above the 6th or 7th frets.

Then that is a problem with your particular bass or bass model.

 

[koolbass]

Ok, that is a problem with a particular design.

Then how does one explain all the wonderful recordings of short scale basses using all the neck without intonation problems?

I really don't know, to be honest. I just know what I hear. I LOVE how my Jerry Jones Longhorn sounds, and I record with it quite a bit because of it's unique sound. But I either have to avoid playing up the neck, or run the track through Melodyne 5 Studio after I'm finished. I've done that several times, actually.

I really think it's a design thing. I have, on two occasions, gone to someone else's studio and they wanted me to record a part with their (new issue) Danelectro Longhorn, and on both occasions it was horribly out of tune all over the neck. I couldn't use it either time. At least my Jerry Jones is close to being in tune lower on the neck.

The bridge can be slightly intonated, but it does only a little to help.

 

[Claus Qvist]

Looks great! I have a 1981 Aria CSB-300 that I like so much it became my only bass a year and a half ago. I happen to like the string spacing, but agreed, the scale length is great. To my ear and hands, it offers some of the best elements of long scale and short scale (I've owned both along the way). If I were in charge, I'd make 32" the standard.

The 300 is only one PU, right?
They are great basses, but my fingers are too long to fit the short spacing. However, with a slightly wider bridge, I may manag - or sell it and buy another one with larger spacing. The last stage has been completed when I got another passive Aria (1983; 34") with the same PU mount. I don't recall the model number, but it probably has the best "punch" of any of my basses.

 

[fermata]

The 300 is only one PU, right?
They are great basses, but my fingers are too long to fit the short spacing. However, with a slightly wider bridge, I may manag - or sell it and buy another one with larger spacing. The last stage has been completed when I got another passive Aria (1983; 34") with the same PU mount. I don't recall the model number, but it probably has the best "punch" of any of my basses.

Yes, just one pickup placed approximately in the Stringray position, configured like a reverse P, and built with Jazz-like coil dimensions. (The perfect bass for someone who can't decide between a 'Ray, a P, or a J?) Too bad the spacing isn't a good fit for you--maybe make it your 'pick bass?' Or take a look at Adrian Maruszczyk's technique in his videos. If you can adapt your technique to the narrow string spacing, you'll find that it allows for less right hand work and more more relaxed playing experience. You could see about replacing the saddles with threaded ones, which would allow you to move the strings slightly farther apart; maybe an extra mm or so is enough?

 

[Larry Fuller]

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

 

[spufman]

When I had a CSB 32" bass, i cut a piece of wood to fill in the stock bridge body inset, then installed a Schaller roller bridge to widen the spacing. Worked out well. When selling it years later, I re-installed the original bridge (the wood insert was not glued).

 

[Larry Fuller]

there are two birdsongs in the classifeds.
this is not only a rare occurrence, but a possible solution to your "problem"
if you've got the $ , take a chance and own(even if for a short time) the best short scale bass out there.
you can always sell it for your cost if you dont like it.
Larry in Reno(not affiliated with the basses that are for sale)
Birdsong owner

 

[micguy]

You're probably not familiar with the Jerry Jones (Danelectro)

But I thought it was commonly known (at least to me) that a short scale bass does not allow for proper overtone series development within the length. 40" is optimal for overtones to fully develop, 36" is ok, and 34" (Fender scale) is barely usable. The shorter scales for those size strings and the pitches do not allow for fully developed overtone series. It's a musical acoustics (physics) thing that I read about many years ago, so I can't reference where I read it.

I studied the Physics of musical instruments in College - my professor is the guy that literally wrote the book on the topic, and I have my degree in Acoustical Physics, having studied that stuff with him. Somehow, in all our discussion on the Physics of stringed instruments, we never discussed that overtones can't develop with less than 40" of string. Not sure how we missed that.

 

[ChrisPbass]

I have no interest in choosing to try a short scale bass. It's never crossed my mind, before reading this thread.

not reading music forums is the BEST way to destroy G.A.S!

 

[redstrand]

All four of these intonate perfect and sound great. I’m 6’4” and can palm a basketball. String spacing varies but all are a great to play when my hands hurt. Like anything else it just takes a minute to go for it and make cool sounds.

 

[fermata]

Are all Hofner short scale?

No, there's the Hofner Verythin Long Scale.

 

[Greywoulf]

Well, due to health issues (arthritis) I always play sitting, and also avoid using a strap across my back and shoulders. So the weight and balance of a bass is extremely important to me. I only play 4-strings also, but AFA short scale/long scale differences go I find it's the actual design of the instrument that is more important to me than the scale length.
For instance I have a short scale PJ Ibanez Mikro that's very light, with a slim neck and small 2x2 headstock, that is very easy to play and so is definitely a keeper. But the short scale PJ fretless SX I had was chunky and heavy, with a thick and short p-bass style neck and a big 4-in-line Fender style headstock that constantly dove floorward w/o strong support from my fretting hand. I knew within 20 minutes that it would never be a good fit for me and returned it.
But then I replaced the shorty SX with a new 34" scale single soap-bar pickup Ibanez GSR100 that I'm finding an absolute delight to play, even tho it has a longer and slightly wider neck and is a bit heavier than the Mikro. For me the Ibanez GSR100 has better balanced heft (and a more appealing style) with it's slimmer body and smaller 2x2 headstock than the short but chunky Fender style SX had. -So it definitely seems that with bass guitars it's the design, especially the weight and balance, that's far more important to me than the length of the reach to the notes... -And BGs designed like Schecters or Ibanez are easier for me to play than Fender Jazz and P-Bass styled instruments. ;>}]
Enjoy!
Greywoulf

 

[A9X]

Samick Corsair CR13 - nice
Ibanez SRC6 - awesome
Fender Jag - woof. CR13 >>>>>>>> Jag.

 

[ChrisPbass]

As you can see via my Avatar to the left, all my basses are long scale, including the Standard P-Bass not shown; with the Martin EB-28 being the longest scale yet mostly played weekly, with all using chrome flats. At seventy-years old with a bum left shoulder, I sit when I play but still have problems reaching the first few frets, so I play mostly upscale which sometimes undermines the term BASS. As a result, I recently placed an order for a Fender American Performer Mustang Bass because of its short scale, but I will still sit when playing. But as a result of reading some of the posts, I'm at a loss regarding strings and tension of the short scale bass and need some help as to which strings will be the best for my genre which is primarily praise and worship which does not require the brighter sounds from the bridge pickup. I do prefer flats as I slide from note to note frequently. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Get a 5 string! Your E is no longer :way down there: but at the 5th fret.

 

[stevieg]

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

Hey Socknroll,

I primarily have played long scale instruments. In some cases extremely long scale e.g., my Gibson Thunderbird.

Not long ago I acquired a '67 Guild Starfire, a proudly short scale instrument. It did take some getting used to. In fact, initially I had to consciously remind myself that it was a short scale instrument and adjust my fingering accordingly. Even now, when I take on gigs and use it on some tunes, I need to be conscious of the fact that it is short scale.

stevieg