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Short sets?

#21
abbub said:
I'm not expecting anything beyond hopefully getting 10-15 more minutes and the not-unreasonable expectation that we'll probably have a much easier time drawing in more people on a Sunday night because we're playing in the city we live in? I think you guys may be reading way more into my thread than I posted?
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Its possible I am. No offense, I didnt mean to so I apologize if it came across that way. I guess I just think differently when it comes to my band playing out. We have put up with things we don't necessarily like or agree with and have at times inquired about changing things, but we are almost always at the mercy of the booking agent or venue. So when we have to pick 5 MAYBE 6 songs out of a catalogue of about 12, it sucks. Really sucks. I mean, we've gotten into bickering matches over what we were going to play because we all like certain songs for certain reasons but want everyone to hear ALL of our songs. Not just 5 of them for 30 min. It def blows to try and pick and choose for a 30 min set. So I do feel your pain.
 
#22
gregmon79 said:
And honestly, I had it to you for busting your butts the last year and I mean no disrespect, but most people might say something along the lines of so what, a year?!
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Oh...maybe this is what is getting stuck in everyone's craw? I think a lot of bands would and could say it. All I meant by that is that I feel that we as musicians should have a symbiotic relationship with the venues, without our needing to be 'grateful' to them (or them to be 'grateful' to us). They're doing us the favor of giving us a place play at their venue. We're doing them the favor of dragging all of our friends out to buy food and beer and getting people into their bar. We're doing everyone a favor (including ourselves) by making sure that our music is as tight and as perfect as we can make it.
 
#23
abbub said:
Oh...maybe this is what is getting stuck in everyone's craw? I think a lot of bands would and could say it. All I meant by that is that I feel that we as musicians should have a symbiotic relationship with the venues, without our needing to be 'grateful' to them (or them to be 'grateful' to us). They're doing us the favor of giving us a place play at their venue. We're doing them the favor of dragging all of our friends out to buy food and beer and getting people into their bar. We're doing everyone a favor (including ourselves) by making sure that our music is as tight and as perfect as we can make it.
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You could look at it like that. But to me, the harsh reality is this, they could give two poops if you come in and being people, they can replace most bands with a phone call. Sad but true. That's how it is around here anyway.
 
#24
Also, there are some serious strawmen being thrown around. If The National, Radiohead, Muse, or some other band I love came to town and allowed us to play even *one* song opening for them, it'd be the highlight of my life. Being given a short set opening for a major national act is a completely different situation than the one I'm talking about. :/
 
#26
40-45 for an opening band on a 2 band bill isn't out of line, but honestly it's creeping up into long territory. I personally wouldn't do more than 40. If it were a 3 band bill, I'd say the 30-35 minute request was perfectly acceptable. If you go longer than that on either, you risk:

1. Annoying the following bands (not a good way to make friends)

2. Boring the audience (although the majority may be there to see you, not everyone is, and people get tired of watching a live set if they don't care for the band at a certain point) - and to be brutally honest, if all your material is 7 minute+ tunes, they have to move really well, or I think this could be a serious concern. Not trying to be a jerk - it's just a reality. People need to feel like they're moving along with you, or you could lose crowd interest and 45 minutes can feel like an eternity.

As far as the owner only wanting a limited time for an opener - it's completely acceptable. He may not know your band, and he's not there for you to fulfill your dream, honestly. Your relationship is mutual. You bring a draw to make some money - he gives you a place to play.

And finally, it's better to leave a crowd wanting more than to bore the bejesus out of them. I think it's acceptable to ask if you can play a 35 minute set which would hopefully give you space for one more tune. Then you edit your absolute best songs to cut it down to that time frame and you'll be good.
 
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#27
P-oddz said:
40-45 for an opening band on a 2 band bill isn't out of line, but honestly it's creeping up into long territory. If it were a 3 band bill, I'd say the 30-35 minute request was perfectly acceptable.
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I agree 100%: if this were a three-band bill, I wouldn't have posted this.

P-oddz said:
2. Boring the audience (although the majority may be there to see you, not everyone is, and people get tired of watching a live set if they don't care for the band at a certain point) - and to be brutally honest, if all your material is 7 minute+ tunes, they have to move really well, or I think this could be a serious concern.
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The songs do move, and our set is definitely not boring. Our last show was a one hour set. We played 8 songs. We got rave reviews from everyone we talked to, including complete strangers and some musician friends who are not prone to BS or blow smoke.
 
#28
As mentioned prior, it can't hurt to ask.

When I was in a metal band, we were consistently playing shows with between 3-5 bands and the slots ranged from 20-30 minutes, maybe 40 for the headliner, but the average song length was also about 3-5 minutes. Meaning a 30 min. set was easily 8-10 songs. I'm guessing by the bands you mentioned, your music is of the somewhat progressive variety, hence the longer song times.

I also subbed in for a prog band years ago, and the few gigs I played with them, the set list became more of a point of contention because a 20 minute opening slot at a club generally meant 2-3 songs.
 
#29
I wasn't trying to imply that your set wasn't solid, my apologies if I came across that way.
I was just trying to say that 40 minutes is getting towards the longer end of things. That's not necessarily a statement about live, original music these days, more than that is just standard stage etiquette these days. It's kind of a shared understanding. As a supporting act, you don't wear out your welcome on stage. If you're headlining, the rules are looser.

I think it's fair to ask if it's okay if you happen to go a minute or two over 30, but if it's a strict 30, then that's the show. Chalk it up and have fun playing.
 
#30
P-oddz said:
40-45 for an opening band on a 2 band bill isn't out of line, but honestly it's creeping up into long territory. I personally wouldn't do more than 40. If it were a 3 band bill, I'd say the 30-35 minute request was perfectly acceptable. If you go longer than that on either, you risk:

1. Annoying the following bands (not a good way to make friends)

2. Boring the audience (although the majority may be there to see you, not everyone is, and people get tired of watching a live set if they don't care for the band at a certain point) - and to be brutally honest, if all your material is 7 minute+ tunes, they have to move really well, or I think this could be a serious concern. Not trying to be a jerk - it's just a reality. People need to feel like they're moving along with you, or you could lose crowd interest and 45 minutes can feel like an eternity.

As far as the owner only wanting a limited time for an opener - it's completely acceptable. He may not know your band, and he's not there for you to fulfill your dream, honestly. Your relationship is mutual. You bring a draw to make some money - he gives you a place to play.

And finally, it's better to leave a crowd wanting more than to bore the bejesus out of them. I think it's acceptable to ask if you can play a 35 minute set which would hopefully give you space for one more tune. Then you edit your absolute best songs to cut it down to that time frame and you'll be good.
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Totally agree. There's not many bands on the face of this earth I want to watch for an hour. Most locals shouldn't play longer than about 5 minutes really. LOL. Like I said before, my ideal set time would be about 35 minutes. Maybe 40.
 
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#31
P-oddz said:
I wasn't trying to imply that your set wasn't solid, my apologies if I came across that way.
I was just trying to say that 40 minutes is getting towards the longer end of things. That's not necessarily a statement about live, original music these days, more than that is just standard stage etiquette these days. It's kind of a shared understanding. As a supporting act, you don't wear out your welcome on stage. If you're headlining, the rules are looser.

I think it's fair to ask if it's okay if you happen to go a minute or two over 30, but if it's a strict 30, then that's the show. Chalk it up and have fun playing.
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No worries, man. Not offended at all. I was just saying that I don't *think* that's the case with us, given the feedback we've received. ...but maybe *everybody* thinks it's not the case with them, it's "just those other bands" that are boring. ;) The last band I was in, about 7-8 years ago, was playing to decent crowds regularly, with two one hour sets (about 50-55 minutes of music per set after stage shenanigans). When we'd play with other bands, they'd always get an hour. That's mostly what I'm basing my expectations off of. Maybe 30 minute sets are the norm elsewhere, and it's just creeping into this area. I've only seen one band recently that played a short set, and my reaction was, "Really? That's it? I want more." I (pretty strongly) disagree with the idea that 30 minutes of any band is enough. We've got a really strong music scene here with a lot of good bands playing out, so coming across a truly awful band is pretty unusual, though. (At FoCoMX, with is a regional music festival, I saw about 15 bands from Denver and Northern Colorado, and out of all of them, I only saw one band I didn't care for.)

The guitarist sent the booking guy an email seeing if we could get 10 more minutes, and said we'd be happy to show up early, get set up, and go on earlier than 9:30 in order to make sure that the main act gets the same amount of time. We'll see if it goes anywhere.
 
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#32
aggrokragg said:
As mentioned prior, it can't hurt to ask.
I'm guessing by the bands you mentioned, your music is of the somewhat progressive variety, hence the longer song times.

I also subbed in for a prog band years ago, and the few gigs I played with them, the set list became more of a point of contention because a 20 minute opening slot at a club generally meant 2-3 songs.
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It's alt-rock with a pretty strong prog influence, yeah. We can get through 4 songs into a half an hour. Probably 5 if we had 35 minutes.
 
#33
i am often in the same boat. we play sludge post-metal and it seems like every show the organizers ask 4-5 bands as they cant fill 45 minutes. it sucks because our songs are close to 10 minutes each so youre talking all that loading/unloading for 3 songs :(
 
#34
Personally, when my band is the local opening band, we do exactly what we wish the opening bands would do when we are on the road and headlining the show. Namely get up there, do our 30 minutes, and pack that 30 minutes with as much playing as possible, no breaks, play, play, play and get off the stage and out of the way, so the headliner can get on stage before people start leaving. And we waive our pay, insisting that it goes to the touring band, 20% or 30% of the door isn't going far for the local band, but when you're filling a gas tank, every little bit helps. At least in the case where the band is about at the same level (or lower) than we are.
 
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#35
Out here in Wisconsin (said with the best midwestern nasal voice I could muster), we've got a pretty burgeoning music scene, but that 30-40 minute range has been pretty standard for original bands since I started doing show about 7-8 years ago. An hour or more is completely unheard of unless you're a party band doing covers, or you're a headliner. Shows usually don't start here until about 10:30, each band gets roughly a 35 minute set (give or take) with a rough 20 minutes tear down/set up.
 
#36
tedious1 said:
Personally, when my band is the local opening band, we do exactly what we wish the opening bands would do when we are on the road and headlining the show. Namely get up there, do our 30 minutes, and pack that 30 minutes with as much playing as possible, no breaks, play, play, play and get off the stage and out of the way, so the headliner can get on stage before people start leaving. And we waive our pay, insisting that it goes to the touring band, 20% or 30% of the door isn't going far for the local band, but when you're filling a gas tank, every little bit helps. At least in the case where the band is about at the same level (or lower) than we are.
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Absolutely! Well said.
Not to mention to try to buy some of their merch if they're friendly enough.
 
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