Shortscale: Mustang vs P vs SG

[Antisyzygy]

I have Player P. But as mainly a guitar player, I'm a bit tired of the weight and bulkiness of the classic Bass.

Anyone A/B Mustang vs P vs SG, and have any good opinions? Ditto question of Player Mustang vs American made Mustang vs SG. thanks!

Clearly, the best tone is with P, but slight tone loss for comfort (frets being closer), and 1-2 lb less weight, I may want to make... as mostly a guitarist playing a bit of bass for fun...

SG basses are pretty cool but they get a fairly muddy sound from that neck pickup. Real woofy, not thumpy like a P. It can work just fine it just depends on what you play. For me that neck pickup gets in the way of various techniques but for you it might be totally fine.

Mustangs are great. Short scales tend to have more fundamental, however, the mustang pickup has a smaller aperature (area sensing string) which tends to make the sound a bit thinner/sharper. However, as other's noted, the pickups not in the exact same spot proportionally for the scale length so it definitely gets a different sound. I'd say they're not as "thumpy" but they still sit in the mix pretty well.

There is a Mustang PJ that would probably be the closest sound to a full P-bass. It also has the bridge Jazz pickup for some added variety.

If I was choosing a Mustang I'd personally get the MIM one to be honest, best sound/options for the dollar. MIMs are pretty high quality anymore. If you're not a full time bassist then why spend the dough?

Some other options are :

1) Short Scale Stingray (Sterling or USA Made)

Relatively new bass, I quite like mine. It sounds like a Stingray for the most part. It has a series/parallel/single rotary switch and is a passive bass. It gets more of a "howl" than a P-bass but it cuts through the mix real well. P basses are sort of tuned more to "sit in the mix", however you can always EQ anything.

I like how it has 22 frets. It feels a bit like a Strat in terms of size. Very comfortable to play, and even the import model has the nice truss wheel feature.

2) G&L Fallout Bass (Tribute or USA Made)

Super versatile, has parallel, single-coil, and OMG mode. OMG mode is scooped in the mids, so sort of Jazz bass like sound, but not quite the same.

It gets a P sound for the most part but you can sort of EQ it with the switching to get more of a slap-friendly sound using OMG Mode.

3) Guild Starfire I (new bass, semi-hollow P)

This looks interesting, it's a shortie P bass but semi-hollow. I've been thinking about getting one but I'd really love to try it first.

4) Hofner Violin Bass

Going to be like a hollow-body version of a SG bass maybe though there will be less "MUD" from the neck pickup. The dude from Tears for Fears plays something like this, though I think he has custom Dusenbergs.

=========================
There are some other options from Chowny or Eastwood Guitars as well, check the scale length, but there are quite a few different options.

Eastwood Guitars has a "Hooky" bass that looks quite cool, 6 string short scale.

I think Sire has some shortscales now.

Ibanez also has some shortie modern headless basses out now, one is even a fanned fret 5 string.

 

[AlexanderB]

In all my 21 years on Talkbass...

That is the single greatest post I've ever seen about flats !

I agree with you completely.

Thank you for the kind words - they carry a bit of weight when they come from a very skilled and creative musician like you.

 

[AlexanderB]

The pickup on a Mustang Bass is in a different location from the pickup on a Precision.

Here is a "quick and dirty" overlay of a Precision over a Mustang. (Ignore the scale - the Precision is reduced in size so that the bridge saddles and nuts are lined up.)

View attachment 4266998

You can see that the Precision pickup is located much closer to the bridge. The change in location will explain some of the tone difference between the Precision and mustang.

By the way, the relative position of the P pickup on the MIM P/J Mustang is about halfway between the positions of the two pickups in the above picture!

Nice job with the picture! No mystery why the P/J then is more like a Precision, if both position and pickup type is more similar.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Why anyone wants flats is beyond me as well, and have given them a try a couple of times. Stiffer to play, less sustain, less mids, muted highs, often less fundamenral as well. Flats will also to some extent hide/diminish both sloppy technique and intricate, finer details, like tap ons, harmonics etc. Turns the bass into a semi drum, especially when played with a pick.
I can imitate that by using palm mute on my bass, but there is no way of getting the sound of rounds from a bass with flats.

The MIM P/J has an actual Precision pickup, whereas the JMJ, MIJ, Vintera etc have a pickup similar to what was in the original Mustangs, with a more compressed and less open sound. I tried the JMJ, and it was a really good bass, but (like your Gibson basses), knd of a one trick pony.

I like not having to change the strings so often and I don't play with a pick. Picks are heresy!

There are about a hundred different varieties of flats. Maybe you used chromes? Those tend to be pretty stiff.

There are a bunch of videos from people slapping or doing harmonics on flats across all sorts of different basses and it sounds fine to me, just takes a little EQ or the right bass style (e.g. maybe a Stingray) to make it work.

Cobalt flats work pretty well as a middle-ground option. I stick those on my long scales and they maintain a good amount of brightness for a really long time. They take a bit to break in.

Even with perfect technique some of the string noise is unavoidable without proper EQ. Listen to yourself DI, and not EQ'd. Bass amps are designed already to make the natural DI sound better by boosting only certain frequency ranges. Listen to a bass through a keyboard amp that has a flat EQ and it sounds terrible, all clanked-out or you get the ringing "woosh" from moving your fingers while muting.

A set up goes a long way towards helping here but not all basses are made equal there, and it might take some effort or money to get it right. For example a fret leveling and polishing job.

Anyway, you can always do whatever you want, rounds are fine, I use them too. I just don't think flats are as bad as you say.

 

[3bc]

I have Player P. But as mainly a guitar player, I'm a bit tired of the weight and bulkiness of the classic Bass.

Anyone A/B Mustang vs P vs SG, and have any good opinions? Ditto question of Player Mustang vs American made Mustang vs SG. thanks!

Clearly, the best tone is with P, but slight tone loss for comfort (frets being closer), and 1-2 lb less weight, I may want to make... as mostly a guitarist playing a bit of bass for fun...

There are two types of people in the world. Those who play an SG bass and those who have good taste.

I'm kidding. Mostly...

I'm biased but the handful of times I've played an SG bass it my least favorite bass I've ever picked up. I prefer 34" scale basses, but I have messed around on a few mustang basses and had fun at least. An SG bass to me is like the worst of all worlds. Doesn't look cool like an SG guitar. Sounds kind of unusual and unruly but not in a super mojo way like a Ric, should be really easy to play but never seem to be set up well (that's been my experience, though I'm sure that's not a universal flaw).

 

[MartialDylan]

OP:

Here's a bass to consider:
Gibson Les Paul Jr DC Bass

You can still find these as new-old stock at zzounds.com

Here's one for sale here on the Classifieds:
For Sale/Trade - Gibson Les Paul Jr. DC Tribute (short scale)

I'm not associated with these sellers.

 

[kevs1]

Why anyone wants flats is beyond me as well, and have given them a try a couple of times. Stiffer to play, less sustain, less mids, muted highs, often less fundamenral as well. Flats will also to some extent hide/diminish both sloppy technique and intricate, finer details, like tap ons, harmonics etc. Turns the bass into a semi drum, especially when played with a pick.
I can imitate that by using palm mute on my bass, but there is no way of getting the sound of rounds from a bass with flats.

The MIM P/J has an actual Precision pickup, whereas the JMJ, MIJ, Vintera etc have a pickup similar to what was in the original Mustangs, with a more compressed and less open sound. I tried the JMJ, and it was a really good bass, but (like your Gibson basses), knd of a one trick pony.

Thanks Alex, so Performer is a Mustang pickup? ,
Whereas the MIM has a P bass pickup, if I'm reading specs correctly: You woud vote then the MIM Mustang over the Performer for sound? As it has the P pickup not Mustant pickup? Here are links for all:

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Then begs question why Performer almost double price..

 

[kevs1]

There are two types of people in the world. Those who play an SG bass and those who have good taste.

I'm kidding. Mostly...

I'm biased but the handful of times I've played an SG bass it my least favorite bass I've ever picked up. I prefer 34" scale basses, but I have messed around on a few mustang basses and had fun at least. An SG bass to me is like the worst of all worlds. Doesn't look cool like an SG guitar. Sounds kind of unusual and unruly but not in a super mojo way like a Ric, should be really easy to play but never seem to be set up well (that's been my experience, though I'm sure that's not a universal flaw).

Thanks 3, yeah, that did cross my mind too that the the SG guitar is more beautiful than the SG bass.. maybe tuners ...

 

[kevs1]

SG basses are pretty cool but they get a fairly muddy sound from that neck pickup. Real woofy, not thumpy like a P. It can work just fine it just depends on what you play. For me that neck pickup gets in the way of various techniques but for you it might be totally fine.

Mustangs are great. Short scales tend to have more fundamental, however, the mustang pickup has a smaller aperature (area sensing string) which tends to make the sound a bit thinner/sharper. However, as other's noted, the pickups not in the exact same spot proportionally for the scale length so it definitely gets a different sound. I'd say they're not as "thumpy" but they still sit in the mix pretty well.

There is a Mustang PJ that would probably be the closest sound to a full P-bass. It also has the bridge Jazz pickup for some added variety.

If I was choosing a Mustang I'd personally get the MIM one to be honest, best sound/options for the dollar. MIMs are pretty high quality anymore. If you're not a full time bassist then why spend the dough?

Some other options are :

1) Short Scale Stingray (Sterling or USA Made)

Relatively new bass, I quite like mine. It sounds like a Stingray for the most part. It has a series/parallel/single rotary switch and is a passive bass. It gets more of a "howl" than a P-bass but it cuts through the mix real well. P basses are sort of tuned more to "sit in the mix", however you can always EQ anything.

I like how it has 22 frets. It feels a bit like a Strat in terms of size. Very comfortable to play, and even the import model has the nice truss wheel feature.

2) G&L Fallout Bass (Tribute or USA Made)

Super versatile, has parallel, single-coil, and OMG mode. OMG mode is scooped in the mids, so sort of Jazz bass like sound, but not quite the same.

It gets a P sound for the most part but you can sort of EQ it with the switching to get more of a slap-friendly sound using OMG Mode.

3) Guild Starfire I (new bass, semi-hollow P)

This looks interesting, it's a shortie P bass but semi-hollow. I've been thinking about getting one but I'd really love to try it first.

4) Hofner Violin Bass

Going to be like a hollow-body version of a SG bass maybe though there will be less "MUD" from the neck pickup. The dude from Tears for Fears plays something like this, though I think he has custom Dusenbergs.

=========================
There are some other options from Chowny or Eastwood Guitars as well, check the scale length, but there are quite a few different options.

Eastwood Guitars has a "Hooky" bass that looks quite cool, 6 string short scale.

I think Sire has some shortscales now.

Ibanez also has some shortie modern headless basses out now, one is even a fanned fret 5 string.

thanks Anti, So MIM you would say 100% as good tone or even better than MIA? MAI not better build quality quality? . whereas Artic white of MIA nice. oh and Rosewood, like nicer/ as dark.

 

[weird_hermiston]

I love the muddy sound of the SGs but the awful neck dive makes them a no-go for me. I’ve got a MIJ SG style that’s better balanced than a Gibson, and maybe one day I’ll switch out the neck pickup for a real mudbucker.

 

[msb]

Rather than the SG look at the Les Paul DC jr bass . They put the pickup in the sweet spot and gave it a coil tap . Lightweight , and a lovely feeling neck .

 

[BobKos]

Have to say that Warmoth offers great options in SS basses. They offer 32" & 30" necks that mate to their Jazz and P-Bass style SS bodies. Those bodies can be configured with all manner of bridge, pups, electronics, etc from most manufacturers. No need to feel limited or compromise when choosing SS. FWIW I own 2 vintage Mustangs and they can't touch my Warmoth SS Jazz Bass. Of course the Warmoth is equipped with off-the-shelf Nordstrand Blade P/J and an East Uni-Pre. If I HAD to have a Mustang I would get the P/J model with a real sized P-Bass pickup. IMO none sound as good as a 34" P-Bass or Jazz Bass.

 

[rpt50]

To the OP, you really have to get out there and play these things, as you may be very surprised at what you find. I recently did a major search for my first "real" bass after 45 years of guitar playing. When I started the search I would have bet some big money that I would wind up with a Fender product, and probably a Mustang. After all those years of guitar playing, I had really come to favor Fender guitars, so I thought that's the way I would go, and "everybody" says the Mustang is great for guitar guys wanting to try bass. But Fender basses of any form didn't make my short list (or even the medium list!). You gotta get out there and play some basses!

 

[NoiseNinja]

My 50 cent:

Don't ever eat stew with a P or make burgers from SG.


On a more serious note I would properly go for the short scale Sting Ray, or perhaps the G&L Fallout, I would put the Fallout over the Sting Ray, tone wise, but I am not happy with the less than 22 frets of the Fallout.

Also I love my cheap budget only 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass with just an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup installed, wired directly to the output jack socket.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

No experience with the Mustangs, though I do have an SG. Just want to throw it out there that the current SGs do not sound like the EBs from the 60s and 70s. While they looks similar, the modern SGs don’t actually have the “mudbucker” pickup, but rather a fairly mild humbucker. It isn’t as hard to EQ and sounds good, if not a little nondescript.

A few months before COVID, I took the family to Universal Studios. They had a jazz trio playing in the park where the bassist was playing a Mustang through a small combo amp. Sounded phenomenal.

I have basses that do the P thing, so I like the SG for something different. But if I were in your position, I’d be strongly considering the Vintera Mustang. I’m not a fan of the PJ models myself.

Having owned a couple of EB3s back in the 70’s, thank heavens the new SGs don’t sound like them.

As for P vs SG, I’ve been playing PBS for for about 45 years now. I did a a few years back spend about a half hour playing an SG and had no problem getting useful tones out of it. No, not a PB, more on the lines of a cross between a JB and Firebird. It played well but like most guitars at GC, could have used a set up.

As for a Mustang, the last one of those I played was in 1974 and it was a pleasurable experience. Played exceptionally well (much better than the EB3s) and sounded great (also much better than my EB3s). I almost bought one but was talked out of it by our guitar player that insisted on me getting a Rick 4001. I haven’t played the recent reissues, but I’m thinking it may be a very serviceable bass.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

My 50 cent:

Don't ever eat stew with a P or make burgers from SG.


On a more serious note I would properly go for the short scale Sting Ray, or perhaps the G&L Fallout, I would put the Fallout over the Sting Ray, tone wise, but I am not happy with the less than 22 frets of the Fallout.

Also I love my cheap budget only 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass with just an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup installed, wired directly to the output jack socket.

You're about the third Ibanez Mikro user in this thread. I'm number four. For running to a small acoustic gig or practicing at my office I love my Mikro with my Gallien Krueger MB108. People are truly amazed when they hear the combination. The GK provides great deep bass for a little guy and the Mikro actually has a few tricks up its sleeves with the P/J combination. My lefty was only $199 delivered brand new and only needed very minor adjustment out of the box.

BTW whichever one you buy, if you have a Sweetwater rep, request from them to have the warehouse get the actually lowest weight bass in the inventory. They will do that. My Mikro is very light and a dream to play. Best of luck in your choice.

 

[kevs1]

Leaning towards Player Mustang P/J.. . anyone know what is the lightest one that one cold hope to find? I know on Sweetwater, they'll list 4 guitar weights, and often one will be up to 1lb lighter than others.

Also, the P pickup on a P/J would/ might be better in general, than a Mustang Pickup, quality wise?

 

[Antisyzygy]

thanks Anti, So MIM you would say 100% as good tone or even better than MIA? MAI not better build quality quality? . whereas Artic white of MIA nice. oh and Rosewood, like nicer/ as dark.

If you're talking about Fenders then this might help.

The Mexico plant, last I heard, gets the old manufacturing equipment from the American plant. They may not have the laser-guided fret leveler or the brand new CNC machines that make the MIAs so tight, but they are still quality instruments. I'd stack them up against a 10 year old Fender MIA, thereabouts. Quality seems to improve year over year for all instruments and the MIMs are always chasing the Fender MIAs is how I'd put it.

They also select slightly less beautiful woods, or the bodies might be made from one or two extra pieces (all bodies anymore are glued together from several pieces of wood even if it's a Fender MIA). I think you can only get one-piece bodies anymore when spending 2000 or more. Usually two-piece is the best you can get for a reasonable price.

Anyway, the last ten or so MIMs I've played were all quality instruments. They are not as nice as the MIAs in some ways that are hard to describe but they are functional, playable work-horses. The frets feel good, they sound like a Fender, and they take a good setup. Usually it's the finish that's a bit cheaper feeling but it depends on the MIM. If you're spending close to 800 or so on a MIM its pretty close to the mid-range Fenders (MIA ones) quality.

If you're going to mod your bass then a MIM is probably the best choice. MIAs are basically not worth modding.

For my money if you want MIA then G&L is a better choice than Fender. I'm for sure biased for G&Ls, I've owned about 10 over the years and kept 3 of my favorites. Their MIAs are super high quality, bookmatched two-piece bodies, perfect frets, incredible finish quality, etc. Beautiful instruments. You can get something close to a custom shop instrument for a pretty reasonable price. G&L is a Leo Fender company.

 

[kevs1]

Thanks Anti, I'm starting with a MIM Mustang p/j. (think only MIM ) I did like look (at least photos online) of the black JMJ, but was you or others here say P/J would be higher quality, better sounding, more versatile, being you get a real P and J pickup..... The MIA, Pro series, I was looking at but even that still has mustang pickups, which I'm sure are great, but boy having real P and J pickup does seem like best choice if going go Mustang?

 

[Antisyzygy]

Leaning towards Player Mustang P/J.. . anyone know what is the lightest one that one cold hope to find? I know on Sweetwater, they'll list 4 guitar weights, and often one will be up to 1lb lighter than others.

Also, the P pickup on a P/J would/ might be better in general, than a Mustang Pickup, quality wise?

P-bass pickups "sense" a wider portion of the string so they're a bit fatter sounding than the Mustang pickup. However the Mustang pickup is a bit closer to the neck and this affects the tone as well. Fender probably moved the Mustang pickup closer to the neck a bit to fatten it up.

It's a balance really, lots of small tweaks add up. I wouldn't say the Mustang pickup sounds lower quality it's just different.

The J pickup on there is good to mix in with the P pickup if you want a bit of a scooped sound (like a Jazz bass but it doesn't sound quite the same).

I had a Mustang PJ for awhile and I liked it overall. It felt like a good studio bass to hit a variety of tones in a compact package there. It didn't seem like it weighed all that much, but Im not sure how low it can go Mustang to Mustang for that model.

I didn't use the bridge pickup by itself ever though. If I bought that one again I'd probably replace the bridge pickup with something hotter (increases the lows and mids). The 3-way switching just begs to be used on that bass. If it had a blend knob or two volumes I would leave it alone.