Double Bass Should I be a soloist?

[kraid]

In my orchestra, the stands of cellists in front of me turn around wide-eyed a dozen times per rehearsal. They call the sound I pull unbelievable.

Are you sure that they're just not thinking to themselves "what the hell????"

 

[anonymous0726]

Are you sure that they're just not thinking to themselves "what the hell????"

LMAO. I was just about to take that same path, but not in as clever a way....

 

[Sam Sherry]

Master this stroke and you are sure to turn heads with your playing. In my orchestra, the stands of cellists in front of me turn around wide-eyed a dozen times per rehearsal. They call the sound I pull unbelievable.

Cellist (and later symphony conductor) Arthur Winograd co-founded the Juilliard String Quartet in 1946 with Robert Mann, Raphael Hillyer and Robert Koff. At a concert 1955 the group got out of synch. Rather than stop they kept on plugging for a while, each hoping the others would bend in their direction. Finally, Winograd whacked his string with the frog of his bow to purposely break it and the group trundled offstage.

Someone asked why they had stopped and one of them responded, "An animal got loose onstage."

A fistfight between the parties ensued and Winograd left the quartet.

 

[Shmelbee]

Good story...how does it apply to AllegroConBasso?

 

[jsbachsonata]

Sorry to leave my last post unfinished - I had to run to an incredible rehearsal. This week we're playing Dvorak 7. Sometimes my sound is so big that my endpin (or even musicstand!) starts to rattle. I think I need a new endpin.

Its good to hear that you apply high standards to all of your playing! I too grow frustrated if I can't attain the desired pitch -and I grow downright mad if I can't acheive the dynamic level I crave.

Oh yes, about the excerise in question: An excercise I enjoy is spiccato. But more specifically HIGH spiccato. My initial studies on the double bass were with the band teacher at the local junior highschool who happened to be a fine percussionist. He turned me on to thinking of the bass as a large wooden, stringed, soundboard - similar to the skin of a timpani head. The similarities are uncanny (read some Asimov if you are interested in the Physics pertaining to this).

Have you ever seen a timpanist acheive a loud dynamic by starting his stroke a mere inch above the head? No, of course not. So, in this day and age, we bassists must too learn a high vertical stroke like the downward thrust of a mallet. See, by not wasting time and energy on horizontal bow motion in the strokes, we can acheive the highest level of spiccato and allow the body of the instument to resonate the length and taper of the tone (like the body of the kettle drum).

Master this stroke and you are sure to turn heads with your playing. In my orchestra, the stands of cellists in front of me turn around wide-eyed a dozen times per rehearsal. They call the sound I pull unbelievable.

Start with your metronome on 120 to the quarter and thump out eighths making sure to clear the string by as much as you can. Through time the stroke will get bigger and bigger. Also note that one's stick must be very tight and one must use plenty of rosin to attain a core sound through minimal horizontal length.

This should help! Good luck one and all! In the words of Hal happy "strokin'"

I don't completely agree with you on this but i don't completely disagree.

A different version of this thing that you're talking about isn't new; there's a technique called lift off's (it's called that in gary karr's method but other people might call it something else) where the bass player lifts the bow off the string and then slams it down and almost instantly pulls his/her back muscles back. Then the bow just kinds of bounces off immediately and you get an orchestral bass attack sounds. It's loud and has a great attack.

The key however, is the arm weight in the beginning where the bow gets slammed down and then the back muscles NOT the arm. keep the arm relaxed but it should not be used that much.

your way seems like a high violin spiccato.... with a lot of arm, rosin, and bow tension. To get a big sound out of that, you will have to have lots of rosin for sure. This kind of bow stroke is hard to control (i don't know how you do it because thousands of bassists have tried it and don't recommend it at all). The extra rosin is also bad, because when you go ahead to play non spicatto notes, you will probably need to play really light without the use of your back.... and then you'll get a loud but scratchy sound from all the rosin even though you aren't pressing down that hard.

the key to a warm, big sound is arm weight and back muscle movement and not that much bow tension and enough rosin.

 

[Prescottissimo]

I love this thread, friends. What a wonderful question to ponder, isn't it? Solos can be SOO wonderful.

I worked closely with a bass soloist for a few years who always managed to turn heads in the orchestra, although mainly because he didn't much care for tuning his bass, playing in rhythm, or playing with anyone else. But, he works hard and enjoys his career tremendously - and rumor has it, even started a new society! He really got around the bass in a special way and loves it so much. So, I'd say to decide if you want to be a soloist who plays orchestra, too, or just solo, and if you want to play both, learn how to play orchestra for real. They are both such wonderful vocations when everyone studies for them. An learns to play in tune on the low string - especially the A flat.

Did you know that the word "solos" reversed is still the same word??

 

[JimmyM]

A group of campers were out in the woods one night near an Indian reservation. They had an Indian guide with them to tell them things about the reservation and whatnot. Suddenly, they hear tom-toms beating in the distance. The drumming goes on for 20 minutes and stops as suddenly as it started.

The guide says, "Uh-oh."

The campers start to get a little nervous, and one of them says, "Why did you say `uh-oh?'"

The guide replies, "Drums stop. Next comes bass solo."

An old joke, I know, but one I get a kick out of. Think about it.

 

[B. Johnson]

Ok ok, about this whole spiccato thing everyone seems to be talking about. A great bassist must understand that there are more than just one kind of spiccato. The thing that I think you should understand from the get go is that spiccato starts FROM THE STRING. The bow should NEVER be thrown at the string, that is why so many people get uneven spicatto (i.e. Gary Karr, listen to variation 3 of his Moses Fantasy, his down bows are FAR louder than his upbows). I had to relearn spicatto because I began by throwing the bow at the string. The force of pulling a short stoke should make the bow bounce.

 

[littlekatie]

One of my favourite bits of music I've played lately has been a
stupid 'little' pizzicato in the slow movement Scheherazade. It's really nothing on paper, but it is one of the most satisfying nothings out there. The great operas are full of such moments.
QUOTE]

IMHO, scheherazade does for your bass playing what pro-plus does for your concentration! long like Rimsky-korsakov!

theres a bitch of a bit in ( i think) the last movement. its crazy, its a 1-2 4 -(back)1 - 2 4 pattern, on some chromatic piece of insanity, but its GENIUS. mmmmm.

 

[Prescottissimo]

Should we ALL be soloists????

Not when in the bass section.

Some people have found it important to become specialists in the Micek 2 Sonata - playing it incessantly for at least 8 years straight. Every masterclass, every solo opp, every day. Some even go so far as to think that this can make you the greatest bassist in the world- sort of a magic bass potion!
Warning: potion does not appear to help orchestral abilities.

 

[JimmyM]

I think classical players should stop thinking about soloing so much and concentrate on what's really important...stunts like standing on your bass and playing it over your head.

 

[SteveA]

Solo vrs Orchestra thing...
Ya sort of got to have 2 sounds the solo sound (bright rich and singing) and the big low chocolate orchestral thing...

A heck of a thing to balance at an orchestral audition esp if you are using say solo tuning,

This is also a good argument for having 2 bass...

Regarding the spicato thing
I used to use French bow and for me it was all about balance point of the bow, not forcing the sound but finding the best place where the sound and the bow work together (and that varies depending on the string length you are stopping)... Barry Green used to talk about sucking a milkshake thru a straw ... 2 much and it breaks up just right and it goes down well. And I'd say it's possible to make a huge big spicato with not a massive amount of movement ...

Bruce Lee (the Kung Fu dude) talked about his 1 inch punch that would snap a 4 by 2 (which he could do apparently!!) in some respects it makes sense that you may not have time to get a big swing happening so it may be a good thing to be able to make a big sound with only a small intense movement.

May be try both approaches? As someone has already said there is more than 1 type of spicato.

Good luck!

 

[kurt muroki]

I hope this doesn't annoy anyone, but for me the one thing I miss in "orchestral playing" is that the violins, violists, and cellists have a similar sound, then the basses always sound like a completely different animal... this includes timing especially in mozart and bach. It would be so interesting to me to be able to hear an orchestra of unified strings just once. Also soloists always have trouble distinguishing between when they have the melody or accompaniment. I guess thats why I feel that chamber music is the best place to start for orchestra and solo playing.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Kurt, I agree with you 100%. Recently I did a couple of local Chamber gigs and it was a blast. One was Mozarts Requium. It was the Cello part with just a few Tacits mainly for Volume where the singers had solos. I felt like a Solosit the whole night as I could esaily be heard by everyone.

BTW, How is that beautiful Bajoni doing?.. I'm using mostly the Gilkes now. The Martini is second to the English bomb.

 

[littlekatie]

i did the req a couple of months ago - in a church, the acoustic was insanely booming and it was totally clear to hear my little 1/2 size bass (as it was at the time!!) thumping out.
my teacher always taught me to play as if i was the only musician on stage - that way you observe dynamics and phrasing a lot more, adding to the overall sound.