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Should I be reimbursed?

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#181
electracoyote said:
Perhaps his band mates are taking everything into account in a way that we never could or would here on TB. We're just not that kind of forum.

We enter these threads giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's kind of the unwritten contract we agree to. All threads require it. The mere fact that he told his story juxtaposed does not impugn his reputation any more than a thread you, or I, or anyone else starts. I've had to come back many times and clarify or update a thread with a detail I forgot to mention earlier. Crime of the century, right?

Next thread you start, I'll bet me and my pack of hyenas could grill your ass off and rattle you good, if I was so inclined.

I get the impression that the more flaming and piling on he encountered, the more OP felt compelled to defend himself by sharing more and finer details.

You evidently get the impression he made up most of his story on the fly.

To each his own. It's a pretty sad thread, and a sad statement about a "community of supportive musicians." Oh wait, I think that's where I have erred...
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Good lord man! You're taking this all WAY too seriously and making some silly assumptions.

I don't think he made anything up. Presenting the story the completely backwards way he did, he shouldn't have been surprised by any of the replies he received; he literally said "I'm lazy" in one of his first posts.

I'm not sure what's confusing about any of that.

The OP also wasn't ever 'in a jam'. He hadn't lost his job, home, ability to feed and clothe himself, etc. he just spent $800 frivolously and was hoping to get it back.

There was some sympathy in the thread, but if was more in the vein "it sucks, but that's life", as there wasn't much more to say given the details he initially provided.

So relax...and go play some bass ;)
 
#186
Febs said:
That is not merely a remembered detail. It is a direct contradiction of one of the fundamental premises of the original post. Add a number of other improbable details like driving three hours from a major city to spend $4,000 to record in a garage, and yes, the story appears to be highly suspect.
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Again, if you insist on seeing OP in the worst possible light, he certainly gave you the tinder you needed to burn him right down. It didn't take much.

I fail to see how the exact nature of his relationship with the other band members constitutes a "fundamental premise." I'm sure that if people were holding $800.00 of my money that was in dispute, I would be unsure about the status of my relationship with them too. To what degree they are "friends" is hardly central or fundamental to the problem at hand IMO.

As for the studio they chose, its location, the amount they're being charged, etc., my clairvoyance evidently does not extend as far as yours. I find it plausible and as believable as anything I've read here on TB. I read about TB'ers driving incredible distances to gig, to rehearse, to buy gear, and to record fairly regularly. I often read about musicians spending more money than I would in a similar situation. I guess, by your mentality, they all deserve to have their credibility publicly questioned just because it sounds suspect to you.
 
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#190
Your ex-mates were magnanamous to return your money.
Count it as a learning experience, think before you give up your duckies " Is this what I want to do?"
I wish you would have afforded yourself the rare experience of studio recording. Personally I hate it, but some guys love it. But those conclusions come from experiencing it.
 
#191
electracoyote said:
lol

Unfortunately, this place bills itself as a community of musicians supporting musicians, or something like that. Maybe they should change that creedo?
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Yes, as a community, musicians do support other musicians here. But support doesn't always relate to being positive about something. Positive support is actually worse for people overall than negative as it gives a false sense of achievement. There are different ways to approach it, sure, but not everything that happens in this community require a positive supportive attitude. You don't learn from it.

What lesson or opinion would this person now have if everyone was like, oh yes just ask for your money back, you deserve it because you never went. He learn the hard way as to how to approach a situation, and people highlighting that is a form of support, regardless of if it's with a positive attitude or not.

What you're saying is that this entire moto of "community of musicians supporting musicians" should be removed from this entire forum based on this one small thread.
 
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#192
nendo said:
Yes, as a community, musicians do support other musicians here. But support doesn't always relate to being positive about something. Positive support is actually worse for people overall than negative as it gives a false sense of achievement. There are different ways to approach it, sure, but not everything that happens in this community require a positive supportive attitude. You don't learn from it.

What lesson or opinion would this person now have if everyone was like, oh yes just ask for your money back, you deserve it because you never went. He learn the hard way as to how to approach a situation, and people highlighting that is a form of support, regardless of if it's with a positive attitude or not.

What you're saying is that this entire motto of "community of musicians supporting musicians" should be removed from this entire forum based on this one small thread.
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I completely agree. OP erred, his band mates erred probably moreso, truth be known. He deserved to hear that. I said as much in my first post.

But the nature of this thread, and the way that message was communicated, is in no way, shape, or form "supportive," with only a few exceptions. It was insulting, most of the posts coming from people who pride themselves on being internet bullies and snarkmasters. Replies ignored important details and accused OP of being ignorant and a liar with no evidence. It turned into an ugly mob-mentality flame-fest. That was unnecessary and that's not "supportive."
 
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#193
okcrum said:
That's right. I support musicians, not dilettantes with no sense of commitment or responsibility.
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+1

There is difference between supporting and enabling.

I believe that one of the reasons for the lack of empathy is that most of us have been in a band where we've invested a lot of hard work and money just to have someone bail and leaving us scrambling to replace them or face losing all of that time, work and money.

The other issue is that if you want to be part of an online community, you should spend time getting to know that community. TalkBass is generally made up of adult musicians, and even though most of us are part-time, we are serious about our music and understand the importance of commitment. If you know just those two things, it's easy to predict how this thread was going to playout.
 
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#194
About 25 years ago, we began to raise kids without any sense of consequences. Stopped keeping scores in sports and gave ribbons to anyone who bothered to show up: Grades in schools seemed so old-fashioned that we modified them into uselessness, and in some districts, we told teachers that under no circumstances are kids to be given a failing grade, regardless of achievement level: We encouraged a culture of victimization by throwing sympathy at any issue, whether it deserved it or not, because according to modern day PC'ness, everybody is to blame so nobody can be punished.

This is the result of that.

I fully support anyone who is attempting to become a practicing musician. If you have a theory question; fire away - I can probably help. If you ask for the advice of a guy who's been playing for more than 30 years in every possible dive and dump, I'll be there for you. I've seen every fad and style of playing come and go, and it always gets distilled down to the groove first; note choice second.

However, I will ignore the threads where a guy (who clearly has no interest in becoming a musician) is asking for shortcuts. Newsflash - there aren't any. Hard work is the only thing that works. You want to know the notes on the neck, then pick up the bass and practice.

And I refuse to feel sorry for a guy who, as has been pointed out, has inconsistencies everywhere and is clearly at fault for committing then quitting; and then wondering if he should get re-reimbursed for failing to 'man-up'.
 
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#195
lfmn16 said:
+1

There is difference between supporting and enabling.

I believe that one of the reasons for the lack of empathy is that most of us have been in a band where we've invested a lot of hard work and money just to have someone bail and leaving us scrambling to replace them or face losing all of that time, work and money.

The other issue is that if you want to be part of an online community, you should spend time getting to know that community. TalkBass is generally made up of adult musicians, and even though most of us are part-time, we are serious about our music and understand the importance of commitment. If you know just those two things, it's easy to predict how this thread was going to playout.
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This. Completely.
 
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