Should I force myself to play the open strings in my arpeggios?

[gtirard]

I've started to teach myself playing walking bass lines, after 30+ years of playing rock without learning jazz and harmony.

I've noticed that all the youtube educators who play double bass use open strings as often as possible in arpgeggios, scales, and walking bass lines.

So I try to force myself learning my arpeggios with open strings, but it's much more difficult than using the standard shapes I already know, and it makes muting much more difficult.

Since I play the electric bass (not upright), should I continue to force myself using open strings whenever it's possible, and if so, why?

I mean, until now I've learned shapes that I can move and apply everywhere on the neck, transpose easily. When I force myself to use open strings:

• It forces me to "unlearn"
• Changing key changes all the fingerings
• I'm probably more confortable with muting with my left hand than with the right, so muting the open strings is more difficult for me.

I can imagine a couple of good reasons for upright players to use open strings than don't apply to a fretted electric bass.

Am I searching a bad excuse for my lazyness?

 

[gtirard]

Why is it such a big deal for me?

I think the big difference is in the way it makes me "think" the harmony: with standard shapes, I think harmony in terms of intervals and I can almost forget the name of the notes and chords - it's more instinctive for me, closer to improvisation, but it takes me away from reading scores.

Whereas using open strings brings me back to music theory, it forces me to think each note by individual name. Less intuituve, makes it more difficult to improvise. But easier to read scores.

Last, I imagine that if I continue my efforts, the difficulty will vanish, and at the end, these 2 ways of thinking the harmony will rejoin. But my brain have a lot of new things to process aalready, I'm not sure it is useful to add this extra difficulty.

 

[jdjk7]

Why is it such a big deal for me?

I think the big difference is in the way it makes me "think" the harmony: with standard shapes, I think harmony in terms of intervals and I can almost forget the name of the notes and chords - it's more instinctive for me, closer to improvisation, but it takes me away from reading scores.

Whereas using open strings brings me back to music theory, it forces me to think each note by individual name. Less intuituve, makes it more difficult to improvise. But easier to read scores.

Last, I imagine that if I continue my efforts, the difficulty will vanish, and at the end, these 2 ways of thinking the harmony will rejoin. But my brain have a lot of new things to process aalready, I'm not sure it is useful to add this extra difficulty.

My position is that from a theory perspective, it should not matter. I would try practicing doing your scales both ways. It's mostly about the sound that each position brings.

On upright it matters more, because the scale length of upright makes it physically difficult to play all scales without using open notes.

 

[Diddywah]

If you play shapes and patterns, like I do, in all keys, across the strings/down the board (from your starting note) and across the strings up the board, as far as you can go high and low, you will naturally have to incorporate open strings and/or reshape patterns.
Keeping the key in mind (not just moving shapes and patterns around) is important to me too.
It's hard work, but pays of in the end.
Hope this makes sense.....

 

[Dabndug]

A few points on some differences between upright and electric bass:

- Most upright basses are 3/4 size with a 42 inch scale. Your hand will generally only cover three semitones in most positions from the nut to the octave, so shifts are required to play even a one octave scale. Using open strings economises on shifting and the physicality required in stopping a note. This is not such an issue on bass guitar;
- Open strings on an upright sound great. On some bass guitars, open strings can sound quite different to fretted notes, which leads some people to avoid them (my teacher back in the '70s had this opinion, so I developed the habit of avoiding open strings apart from the lowest string). Basses with a zero fret area different kettle of fish;
- More importantly, use of the open strings provides an anchor for intonation on upright. Intonation is one of the big bugbears of playing a fretless instrument. There are no visual cues for note location on an upright, so muscle memory and your ear are all you've got. Provided your bass is tuned correctly, the open strings are a big help in developing your ear, unless the piece you're playing is in a key like G flat major....

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I think learning new shapes with open strings adds options with cool variations.

Like playing a D minor arpeggio that goes open D, F on the A string 8th fret, A on the D string 7th fret, tonic on the G string 7th fret.

Or an E7 arpeggio that goes open E, G# on E string 4th fret, B on the A string 2nd fret, open D, etc.

 

[A Bass And Its Boy]

I knew a guy who would "fret" a note gently behind the nut when practicing scales in lower registers (not so hard to detune the string), because it allowed him to keep those familiar shapes that you're talking about while also playing open strings. Depending on how drastic the volute/transition on your headstock is and how big or flexible your hands are, it's a nice cheat until you feel comfortable playing the open strings without it.

 

[Dynacord]

A few points on some differences between upright and electric bass:

- Most upright basses are 3/4 size with a 42 inch scale. Your hand will generally only cover three semitones in most positions from the nut to the octave, so shifts are required to play even a one octave scale. Using open strings economises on shifting and the physicality required in stopping a note. This is not such an issue on bass guitar;
- Open strings on an upright sound great. On some bass guitars, open strings can sound quite different to fretted notes, which leads some people to avoid them (my teacher back in the '70s had this opinion, so I developed the habit of avoiding open strings apart from the lowest string). Basses with a zero fret area different kettle of fish;
- More importantly, use of the open strings provides an anchor for intonation on upright. Intonation is one of the big bugbears of playing a fretless instrument. There are no visual cues for note location on an upright, so muscle memory and your ear are all you've got. Provided your bass is tuned correctly, the open strings are a big help in developing your ear, unless the piece you're playing is in a key like G flat major....

Very well said. This in particular IMO "use of the open strings provides an anchor for intonation on upright". I would do the same on fretless BG. Fretted it would not be the same priority.

 

[L-u-A-R]

When I first started playing bas. Not owning a bass, playing the church Yamaha. I developed a habit of avoiding the open strings because they 'feel' different.
Start borrowing the 5 string Schecter of the other bassist, open notes still felt different.
Fast forward to when I decide to get a bass of my own. I do research, I didn't even know there were different kinds of basses.
I discover zero-fret. Lightbulb moment. Now I know why the open notes always 'feel' different.
So, I get myself a zero-fret bass. Confirmed, zero-fret has the fretted to open consistency I was looking for.
Thing is. I've built a habit.
Not that I would avoid open strings completely. I specifically minded open notes as part of a line, melodic or arpeggiated. An open note that stands by itself is fine.

I was in your exact position, I think in intervals (from early on, having come from piano) and I deal with transposition and shapes all the time, while avoiding open string notes.
So, to your question, I have two things I learned.

• You only lose 1 note per string if you avoid open strings. I could easily to avoid them 99% of the time on a 5 string,
• Rather than breaking a habit or forming a new one, I just used an already mentioned tip. Think of the open as a fret and 'fret' it.
  • If you wish, this can bridge into more organic open string use, from experience.

 

[logdrum]

Play 1 string note scales also.

There is a name for it in upright , vomit exercise. Usually from , A slide up to B and slide back to A, then A to C# and then back down to A, etc up to octave A. On open G you can do this too. Really good if you have fretless but I do it on fretted too. For fretless it is for intonation

You can also do arpeggios starting on D or G and force your slef not to shift. Like G minor after Bb grab C on the A or maybe get to the A string after G. Same with Eb or Ab. Mix it up.

YET... You really don't have to. The other reason on upright is that it is a lot of work to keep on pressing and any opportunity to rest as in open strings is welcome. Micro rest is important. Also not elegant is the mitt or baseball bat hold fingering . Specially on long solos by the pianist or saxophone player and it is the middle of the 3rd set and you are a playing the house bass with thick spirocores and the action is 1 centimeter. It is not actually using the fingers but the fleshy palm just below the fingers and you cheat with just doing pedal tones.. When the pianist is doing his impression of McCoy Tyner and he his right foot is pinned to the sustain pedal and all the pianos notes are ringing and the drummer is laying it hard like Elvin Jones or Tony Williams , the bass line is implied at this point and it is perfectly okay to just put the bass down and smoke a cigarette.

Sorry I went off script there

 

[Christophe C]

I knew a guy who would "fret" a note gently behind the nut when practicing scales in lower registers (not so hard to detune the string), because it allowed him to keep those familiar shapes that you're talking about while also playing open strings. Depending on how drastic the volute/transition on your headstock is and how big or flexible your hands are, it's a nice cheat until you feel comfortable playing the open strings without it.

I am this guy but I don't remember that we already met each other

 

[JonathanPDX]

As others have mentioned, the scale of the upright is a consideration you don't have on the electric, which makes those open strings less of a necessity.

I'd work on learning your shapes and arpeggios without open strings, but also make an effort to identify where and when those open strings are viable options. For example, if you're walking in C, you might get in a habit of only moving upwards from the root, but that open E string (the major third) is a perfect note to drop down and work your way back up from. But if you start out learning the shapes and scales without worrying about open strings you'll start to discover those kinds of things as you go, even if you don't make an effort to specifically map out your open strings in each key.

 

[scrubhelmet]

I'm not sure what your end goal is; I guess everything will depend on that Having said that, I'm almost in the same boat as you. I've been gigging in popular music for ten years before deciding to study jazz in my own time.

But my brain have a lot of new things to process already, I'm not sure it is useful to add this extra difficulty.

At least for jazz, I find many instances of utility in playing open strings that carry over to the electric bass. For example, in the tune and the bass solo of Oscar Pettiford's Why Not? That's What!, the open D and G string is played in rapid succession with other notes. In a few bars of So What, Paul Chambers played the open D string and then the F note on the G string, which I think is easier than playing the same D note on the A string or even the E string.

I think the big difference is in the way it makes me "think" the harmony: with standard shapes, I think harmony in terms of intervals and I can almost forget the name of the notes and chords - it's more instinctive for me, closer to improvisation, but it takes me away from reading scores.

I think this is where we differ, since I can still think of the notes and the chords while using the open string and the notes that will follow. To each his own but like what I said, if deciding not to play the open string is not detrimental to your goal, then it's fine.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Playing open strings allows upright players to shift positions more cleanly. As has been mentioned in this thread, open strings also have their own sound, and as such, have become part of the jazz technique and language on upright bass.

James Jamerson, the electric bass virtuoso and musical innovator, was also an upright player and brought his available upright technique and jazz sensibility over to the pop world. As a result, he brought over open strings use to shift positions on fretted electric, which contributed to his unique melodic, harmonic, and chromatic feel. John Paul Jones, a virtuoso bassist and disciple of Jamerson, also uses open strings liberally in his playing to capture that feel. Marcus Miller, another virtuoso bassist and composer/producer, also makes good use of open strings, especially when walking to capture the upright vibe.

@gtirard — I think it's a great idea of yours to add open string licks to your walking and soloing lines. Yes, it may hurt the brain early (but that's good thing—you're developing new neuronal connections!), but will pay off because you'd be vastly increasing your musical palette!

 

[Nebadon2000]

I've started to teach myself playing walking bass lines, after 30+ years of playing rock without learning jazz and harmony.

I've noticed that all the youtube educators who play double bass use open strings as often as possible in arpgeggios, scales, and walking bass lines.

So I try to force myself learning my arpeggios with open strings, but it's much more difficult than using the standard shapes I already know, and it makes muting much more difficult.

Since I play the electric bass (not upright), should I continue to force myself using open strings whenever it's possible, and if so, why?

I mean, until now I've learned shapes that I can move and apply everywhere on the neck, transpose easily. When I force myself to use open strings:

• It forces me to "unlearn"
• Changing key changes all the fingerings
• I'm probably more confortable with muting with my left hand than with the right, so muting the open strings is more difficult for me.

I can imagine a couple of good reasons for upright players to use open strings than don't apply to a fretted electric bass.

Am I searching a bad excuse for my lazyness?

Your post explains exactly why I avoid open strings unless obviously smarter or no way of getting around it

Good Luck

 

[Shenron]

it's more instinctive for me, closer to improvisation, but it takes me away from reading scores.

Less intuituve, makes it more difficult to improvise. But easier to read scores.

So then the answer depends on what you want to do more in the near future: read scores VS improvise.

 

[micguy]

"use of the open strings provides an anchor for intonation on upright". I would do the same on fretless BG.

Absolutely the real answer for why upright and fretless folks do this a lot.

 

[Element Zero]

I started playing bass back in '94 as a freshman in high school. Actually I borrowed the schools bass for a couple weeks before school started and sat down at the piano which I had been playing for 5 years already and figured out all the notes. After all this time I couldn't imagine NOT playing the notes and relying on "shapes". Shapes is a foreign concept to me however I understand how and why other use the method. No way I could unlearn what I've cemented for the last 32 years lol

 

[Stylee Mousse]

I have a hard time understanding electric bass players fearing open notes. With little effort you can SLIGHTLY alter your picking and/or muting and blend them in.

OR use them to create dynamic accents.

I guess my bass OCD was all about note generation and envelope- probably to the detriment of other parts of technique

 

[tb-player]

I play upright and electric bass. They're completely different instruments that each necessitate a different technique. I play open strings on upright… not quite as much on electric. So for you, no need to reinvent the wheel if what you're doing works.

I will say, I used to mute a lot with my fretting hand when I first started playing. I quickly realized how cumbersome that is. I forced myself to learn the floating thumb technique on my right hand. It freed up my left hand and made me a much better player. If you're wanting to change something, change that. Once you get it, you'll be glad you did.