Or maybe he just wants to play 4/4, bass on 1+3, snare on 2+4, simple 4 chord songs. I've run into a lot of guys like that as well.
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Should I stay or should I go?
- Thread starter Bright Midnight
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Or maybe he just wants to play 4/4, bass on 1+3, snare on 2+4, simple 4 chord songs. I've run into a lot of guys like that as well.
The guitar player and I feel the same about it. Funny thing is that we just fired our second guitar player three weeks ago due to überstonedness and that state of being causing him to lack any sort of musicianship. When confronted he went like 'oh, we're gonna blame it on the dope now hey?'... He went... and our drummer was the leader in throwing this guy out of the band, but is doing the exact same thing now... Just hiding in the smoke around his head. Failing to drum beyond the realm of 4/4 and whatnot. I know this guy a long time by now and I know he's a better player when not on a 'high' (or low). So I'm gonna lay it down to him, and let it be up to him what he does with it. And as far odd timings go: it's like sex: doing 4/4 while peaking says nothing of how to get there. I actually start 4/4, then go 5/8, and twist my spearhead (after the linguistic business down low) in many directions. None of which seem to bore the misses. We always seem to end in an up tempo 4/4, deliverd with a staccato.
Cheers
Cheers
I’d sure like to hear the drummer’s version of this story.
He probably isn’t the best, but you guys sound like real pains in the asses to play with.
He probably isn’t the best, but you guys sound like real pains in the asses to play with.
Really? What makes you say that?
Is it that that the OP doesn't want to be shut down musically by the drummer? Does that make him a pain to play with?
Is it that that the guitarist and OP want to expand beyond basic 4/4? Growing musically? That does sound pretty painful.
Is it that they are apparently harshing the drummer's mellow during rehearsal?
Hmmmmmm...
You need a drummer who is on the same level as you,and the guitarist!
It seems to me that,you and your guitarist are open to musical growth while your drummer,on the other hand,isn't!
Don't quit,...it sounds to me like you and your guitarist have a special connection!
Now,what you need is,a drummer who shares that vision.
It seems to me that,you and your guitarist are open to musical growth while your drummer,on the other hand,isn't!
Don't quit,...it sounds to me like you and your guitarist have a special connection!
Now,what you need is,a drummer who shares that vision.
Read carefully all that the OP stated. Playing with no discipline, pulling stuff out of their butts and changing timing at any given moment isn’t “expanding” or creative, at least in a constructive way- it’s useless wankery.
The guitarist and the wannabe guitarist taking “minutes” to even find each other in this mess, and what does it sound like while that’s happening? I think I’d consider smoking something if I had to deal with that.
Are these guys actually trying to write material this way? This is NOT how you write material- this is self-centered productiveless masturbatory wankery , and without hearing it, I highly doubt that it sounds very good or that anything of any structure will come of it, at least in any reasonable amount of time.
This sounds like a loosely-structured jamm band; call it music if you like.
JMHO.
I don't know where you read that in the OP. From what I read they had wrote a song and later he "... proposed a new riff for a song we had written." Then the guitarist took a couple minutes to figure out what to do with it and they were off... and the drummer didn't even want to try. No where did I see lack of discipline, pulling stuff out of their butts, and changing timing at a given moment.
Read carefully all that the OP stated. Playing with no discipline, pulling stuff out of their butts and changing timing at any given moment isn’t “expanding” or creative, at least in a constructive way- it’s useless wankery.
The guitarist and the wannabe guitarist taking “minutes” to even find each other in this mess, and what does it sound like while that’s happening? I think I’d consider smoking something if I had to deal with that.
Are these guys actually trying to write material this way? This is NOT how you write material- this is self-centered productiveless masturbatory wankery , and without hearing it, I highly doubt that it sounds very good or that anything of any structure will come of it, at least in any reasonable amount of time.
This sounds like a loosely-structured jamm band; call it music if you like.
JMHO.
Dude, honestly, I'm thinking you're reading way too much into it. I got a totally different vibe from his post.
And even if it was like that, weren't some of the greatest songs of all time were written during impromptu jams, according to the writers themselves? I'll call that music in a heartbeat.
It's obviously working for them. The OP seemed genuinely excited about what they came up with.
Also JMHO too.
Look, improvising and jamming out anything that sounds worth a crap actually requires far better musicianship than copying and doing covers. If you can only write and improvise, you probably suck.
Too many newbie instant-gratification types rush to “improvisation” and “originals” simply because they haven’t taken the time or put forth the effort to actually learn their instruments, and have no clue how music is written.
Actual music isn’t free-form (pull-it-out-of-my-ass)… there has to be some structure unless you’re playing by yourself. I’ve enjoyed hearing masters jamm, and it’s so friggin tight, and far beyond what I’d dream ever being able to hang with.
I have a covers band, write/record a bit, but I derive the most actual enjoyment just jamming with other buddies when I can get a Saturday off from gigging, and it’s frustrating jamming with guys who have no sense of structure, or can’t even tell you before they hit it what keys they’re going to be playing. No prob, I can find it, but I’m not a mind-reader, and if they go into changes at-will with no consistency or structure, it’s just sounds like crap and isn’t very musically satisfying.
From my little experience, if there are a buncha guys jamming and one guy is unhappy, the one who’s unhappy is probably the one who’s the most knowledgeable and skilled.
I want to hear one thing the OP and his guitarist buddy have finished. Until then, imo, he and his guitarist buddy are kids who can’t play or write.
Prove me wrong, I’ll happily concede.
Too many newbie instant-gratification types rush to “improvisation” and “originals” simply because they haven’t taken the time or put forth the effort to actually learn their instruments, and have no clue how music is written.
Actual music isn’t free-form (pull-it-out-of-my-ass)… there has to be some structure unless you’re playing by yourself. I’ve enjoyed hearing masters jamm, and it’s so friggin tight, and far beyond what I’d dream ever being able to hang with.
I have a covers band, write/record a bit, but I derive the most actual enjoyment just jamming with other buddies when I can get a Saturday off from gigging, and it’s frustrating jamming with guys who have no sense of structure, or can’t even tell you before they hit it what keys they’re going to be playing. No prob, I can find it, but I’m not a mind-reader, and if they go into changes at-will with no consistency or structure, it’s just sounds like crap and isn’t very musically satisfying.
From my little experience, if there are a buncha guys jamming and one guy is unhappy, the one who’s unhappy is probably the one who’s the most knowledgeable and skilled.
I want to hear one thing the OP and his guitarist buddy have finished. Until then, imo, he and his guitarist buddy are kids who can’t play or write.
Prove me wrong, I’ll happily concede.
Not arguing that.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean "If the only way you can write is by improvising, you probably suck"?
If yes, I'll argue with that
I'll also say that writing one way doesn't mean you can't write any other way.In addition, we really have no idea how the OP writes, or how that riff in particular came about.
In addition, we have no idea how good of how good musician the OP is, nor do they have to prove it to us.
This is what I mean by reading too much into it. You've already written off the OP as some lazy instant gratification whippersnapper who's too impatient to properly learn their instrument.
Where'd the free form stuff come from? Nobody said there wasn't structure. Jam <> free form.
Are you superimposing your experiences over this situation?
Or the most stoned.
I want to hear one thing the OP and his guitarist buddy have finished. Until then, imo, he and his guitarist buddy are kids who cant play or write.
Prove me wrong, Ill happily concede.
That's up to the OP, but I don't see why they'd be motivated to do so.
Could very well be the case, but thats all I have to go by.
I never ASSume Im right.
Hope I didnt come off as (too much of) an ahole; I love this community.
Love and peace,
Marko
Could very well be the case, but thats all I have to go by.
I never ASSume Im right.
Hope I didnt come off as (too much of) an ahole; I love this community.
Love and peace,
Marko
It's all good man, and likewise.
I'm hoping the OP will post additional detail. Regardless, I'm thinking that there's enough difference in approach and goals between the bassist/guitarist and the drummer to result in a heart-to-heart, with an amicable parting of the ways perhaps being the best for all involved.
Re-reading the OP, I tend to go with lazy. And probably his deal is he can't figure the riff out or how to click to it, so he's rejecting it because it is too hard.
It was the part where he rolled another spliff after voting no that told me . . . uh-uh. Don't leave the band dude. Take the band with you and find a drummer that wants to be in it. This loser doesn't.
Read carefully all that the OP stated. Playing with no discipline, pulling stuff out of their butts and changing timing at any given moment isnt expanding or creative, at least in a constructive way- its useless wankery.
The guitarist and the wannabe guitarist taking minutes to even find each other in this mess, and what does it sound like while thats happening? I think Id consider smoking something if I had to deal with that.
Are these guys actually trying to write material this way? This is NOT how you write material- this is self-centered productiveless masturbatory wankery , and without hearing it, I highly doubt that it sounds very good or that anything of any structure will come of it, at least in any reasonable amount of time.
This sounds like a loosely-structured jamm band; call it music if you like.
JMHO.
This is pretty hilarious!
I even work on structures for all our songs at work, riding my bike, playing with the kids, coocking, whatever... All in my head.
I strongly feel that you didn't even get my original post.
The riff I was originally talking of is a new one for an already existing song which we're rewriting the structure and riffs for.
So we didn't start trying this riff in some sort of mess - we started on it before we did anything else. The fact that a band member categorically refuses to try anything he isn't used to, or something that may require him to step up his technical ability is, at least to me, a serious statement of 'self centeredness'. I've let go of many ideas for structures and riffs an whatnot because someone else's idea was mutually more agreeable. I in no way have a problem with that. But if new ideas get torpedoed before they've been given a chance (and this has happened a fair amount of times), by the same member, because of reasons anything but musical, then that's just not okay.
We play and write pretty disciplined. I work on my lines, vocals and lyrics any time I can and put a lot of effort in it. The guitar guy as well, and the drummer used to do that. But he's gone cold. It's even extremer than that: last Thursday we talked about the difficulties we are having the past time putting together the songs and he, again, stated that he doesn't want to go the way we flirt with Metal and the more complex stuff we're trying out nowadays. I put forth that we need to step up our technical ability and take it from there. But he didn't respond.... He was stoned. And he don't smoke because the guitar guy and I are a pain in the ass. He smokes because it makes him more at ease. He actually 'loved' our band to death... But he doesn't even listen to music anymore outside of Kings Of Leon. The twist is that he still loves bands Tool and the stuff they do, and he'll listen to them also, but doesn't want to even try to go that way.
Without hearing an mp3, there's no way to tell who's right. You're biased, you think its your "best riff yet".
That could mean a lot of things. Something technically difficult and unmusical or something highly listenable.
If you guys are picking odd time signatures out of a hat it is possible he's just never heard anything like it, and doesn't know what to put down behind it. Maybe doesn't even feel what you're doing timewise if its just a lot of notes and no discernable rhythm.
No way to know what's up and who's wrong without more info.
And even then, its not a matter of who's right, who's wrong. You want to try something, he doesn't gel with what you're doing. Its just not a good fit, no matter who's "right".
Randy
That could mean a lot of things. Something technically difficult and unmusical or something highly listenable.
If you guys are picking odd time signatures out of a hat it is possible he's just never heard anything like it, and doesn't know what to put down behind it. Maybe doesn't even feel what you're doing timewise if its just a lot of notes and no discernable rhythm.
No way to know what's up and who's wrong without more info.
And even then, its not a matter of who's right, who's wrong. You want to try something, he doesn't gel with what you're doing. Its just not a good fit, no matter who's "right".
Randy
Personally, I think your drummer's done. If he simply doesn't want to try different things, then I'm sorry for him, he has to go.
Have you tried a drum machine to do this odd-time-signature switch you had thought up?
My only advise on that would be to not "try" to be more technical for its own sake. It then looks contrived and you lose more credit than you hoped to gain.
Have you tried a drum machine to do this odd-time-signature switch you had thought up?
My only advise on that would be to not "try" to be more technical for its own sake. It then looks contrived and you lose more credit than you hoped to gain.
Used to have drum machines. But I don't want to go that way because I'd basically be telling him what to play in a way, and that just doesn't sit right I think.
Technical for its own sake is something we never do. Even this riff, eventhough it switches time signatures, is melodic and groovy. And just about anything we do starts from something 'musical' and not per sé technical.
Look, I grew up with a drummer, my brother, playing his kit all the time, listening/playing anything Metal to Jazz to Latino and all in between. I got soaked with rythm from his endless playing and listening to the music he put on. He's talented, has a brain for music and music theory, teaches drums, conga and music engineering. Rythm inspires me, and I will never ever feel that odd signatures, even when switching, is odd at all.
The point I made in the original post is that 'not even trying' and dismissing a new riff based on 'it's odd from the standard 4/4' is sporting a lack of adventure and will to grow.
