Shouldn't all 35" scale basses have the same B-string tension?

[Lokire]

From what I understand:

The gauge of the string doesn't give it higher tension, the mass of the string does. While higher gauge strings typically have a higher mass, gauge does not necessarily equal mass.

I think it does. It depends on the tuning too though. If you've got a 130 string tuned to B with a pretty high tension, then you take a 100 string (same brand/type) also tuned to B. The 100 string will have a lower tension, because you had to tune down to get the same B note.

A lot of the tension has to do with the core construction as well. Hex core generally has the highest tension (I hate Hex core strings btw). Then round core strings have a lower tension, and nylon core strings have a much lower tension. If the gauge is kept the same.

I think the mass is pretty much directly related to the gauge of the string. Higher gauge means the string is bigger = more mass. If the other materials used are the same anyways.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

From what I understand:

The gauge of the string doesn't give it higher tension, the mass of the string does. While higher gauge strings typically have a higher mass, gauge does not necessarily equal mass.

I think it does. It depends on the tuning too though. If you've got a 130 string tuned to B with a pretty high tension, then you take a 100 string (same brand/type) also tuned to B. The 100 string will have a lower tension, because you had to tune down to get the same B note.

A lot of the tension has to do with the core construction as well. Hex core generally has the highest tension (I hate Hex core strings btw). Then round core strings have a lower tension, and nylon core strings have a much lower tension. If the gauge is kept the same.

I think the mass is pretty much directly related to the gauge of the string. Higher gauge means the string is bigger = more mass. If the other materials used are the same anyways.

You both seem to be correct. The tension needed to bring a string to pitch is dependent on the mass of the string. Typically mass and gauge are positively correlated, but this isn't always true when comparing strings with different construction (roundwound, flatwound, hex core, etc) or made with different materials (nickel, stainless steel, etc).

 

[BartmanPDX]

While I agree that strings play a larger role than scale, scale does still play a role.

The B string on my Sadowsky is fantastic. However, the B string on my Lakland is even better, and they are both strung with identical sets of DR Hi Beams with a .135 B. Necks on both are very stiff, graphite reinforced, and construction on both is excellent. The Lakland is 35" scale though, which does have a slightly different feel.

That's my $.02, anyway.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

With the same strings a 35" scale bass will have 6% more string tension than a 34" scale.

 

[GreyBeard]

My 2 cents. I think the major factor is the neck / body / bridge mass and stability. The more solid a platform the string has to vibrate within the more focused the tone will be.

 

[bucephylus]

My 2c will just echo much of what has been already said about the string tree / break angle comments. Players tend to confuse tension with the solidity of the witness point. It is flat out physics that a thicker, longer string will require higher tension to produce the same frequency. However, 34" scale instruments can produce completely solid B's (as can any 35"). The witness point force, which is defined by the break angle at the nut determines that performance. The first straightforward thing is, tree or no tree, make sure the string wraps on the peg post so that it comes off of the very base of the tuner post against the headstock. Basses with angled headstocks really help, and the most care is required on a flat headstock. Curiously, this used to be a really big issue for the A string on the Fender 4's; and it is really the same problem with the B strings, but for somewhat different reasons.

I am not very familiar with setup on the BTB, but I would make sure the break angle is a maximum as part of the setup.

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

I hated the loose B string, so I had Robert Elrick make me a 36" scale 5 string with a composite fingerboard. The B string ain't loose at all. You don't have to lay off when you play it. You can use it to play figures all the way down to C & hit it just as hard as the other strings. I guess it's not the solution for everyone, but it works great for me.

 

[bugbass]

I hated the loose B string, so I had Robert Elrick make me a 36" scale 5 string with a composite fingerboard. The B string ain't loose at all. You don't have to lay off when you play it. You can use it to play figures all the way down to C & hit it just as hard as the other strings. I guess it's not the solution for everyone, but it works great for me.

I can do all that with my Sadowsky

 

[BuffaloBass]

My 35" bass requries me to be gentle on that B or it will boom, while the 34" bass allows me to be less conscious of that and just play. So while it tension might be looser, I like the " no brainer" of the 34 vs being conscious of attack on the 35". Just an amatuer opinion. Same strings btw.

 

[higgi]

It's been mentioned, but I think the greatest effect on string clarity is neck joint quality. If you have a loose pocket or screws then the vibration from the b string will be dampened by the sloppy joint. I notice a big difference in my B strings after I epoxy the neck joint.

 

[lamarjones]

One other thing to consider, and I am usually wrong on these things, so maybe you don't want to consider this.

I have had mutiple 35" scale basses, but the B did not feel the same on all of them. Although, from an open position, most of them sounded kind of close when plucking ti real lightly, if you give it a good attack they start to sound different.

More so, if you try to bend at like the fifth fret, some of them felt different, like it took different amounts of energy to get the string to bend, some of them actually felt 'tighter' (thinking Roscoe here).

Someone previously said that is referring to 'elasticity' at some point, probably, and I also I think that has a bit to due with neck stiffness, given scale length and string gauge are the same. I would think that if you neck is giving too much when that string is vibrating, you probably aren't going to get the sustaning boom that you might find on other basses.

Now, would extending the post past the nut affect that
(elasticty)? no idea, but a very different question than asking if it would affect the tension in the string, which would be the same at rest as other 35" scales basses.

 

[RyreInc]

well adding 1 inch is less than a 3% change, so it's no wonder that this doesn't have much effect.

Higher gauge means the string is bigger = more mass

I think lower gauge = bigger string actually.

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

Bugbass makes a good point. I have played 34" scale 5 strings that had pretty good tension on the B. Spector comes to mind as well as Pedulla. There must be more to it than scale length.

 

[KJung]

well adding 1 inch is less than a 3% change, so it's no wonder that this doesn't have much effect.


I think lower gauge = bigger string actually.

Higher gauge = bigger string. It's an actual measurement of the diameter of the string. Since the diameter of the string impacts the pitch (a larger diameter string=lower pitch), that means that a larger string will, all other things being equal, be able to be 'tightened' more and still achieve a low pitch (i.e., open B)... therefore.... larger string=higher tension at pitch.

For those who are currently posting, it's worth going back to the beginning of the thread and reading through it. Lot's of good info, and some 'myths exploded' IMO.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

well adding 1 inch is less than a 3% change, so it's no wonder that this doesn't have much effect.


I think lower gauge = bigger string actually.

Though normally I would agree with you, in the case of strings the gauge increases with increasing string size, unlike the way gauge is typically used.

To what people have said about % changes, a 34" to 35" change is a 3% change in scale length and thus a 6% increase in tension (with the same strings). On my Dingwall the 37" scale is an 8.8% increase in length and an 18% increase in tension over 34".

 

[fourstringbliss]

You should try some stainless steel roundwounds if you want a stiffer B string and that piano-like sound. Strings are probably the biggest variable affecting performance of the B string.

I do want a stiff, clear sounding B-string, but I don't really want bright. My bass is active, and it's really easy for it to sound harsh because of that. Are there stainless strings that aren't really bright?