Side-mounting tuners

[eddododo]

Searching for this, both here and on Google, gave me significantly less results than I would've expected. Perhaps it was a failure of search terms, but anyway…

I'm looking for examples of and advice about side-mounting conventional tuners such that the tuning post is on the same plane as the tuning 'post'(?) of scroll headstocks and classical guitars etc. This would put the tuning keys pointing 'forward' or 'backward' instead of sideways.

I realize you would need a significantly thick headstock to even be able to mount a conventional tuner in this manner- For context I'll be using guitar tuners, And modifying the headstock is on the table no matter how I mount the tuners

So let's pretend it's physically possible just in terms of an adequate "purchase" of side wood on the headstock, Are there any other reasons that this would not be feasible?

I realize this is probably impractical, I'm just brainstorming creative solutions for an oddball project, and one of the goals I'm trying to achieve is the ability to use hipshot extenders On the two highest-sounding strings, Which I don't think would be possible with a conventional in-line tuner arrangement because of how the lever swings (it only really works for tuning to drop-d)..
I do remember seeing the Michael manting bass that had four xtenders, but I found the aesthetic of the keys leapfrog-splayed-out like that to be unappealing, and this is a vanity project as much as anything

 

[TerribleTim68]

You mean like @Beej is doing here -
Winter Build Off 2020 - Malefactor 5

 

[ctmullins]

I've done it once or twice. Obviously it works better with the smaller tuners.

Serendipity uses Wilkinson tuners, the same size as Gotoh GB7:

The Teisco violin bass got some Grover Sta-Tite slot-head tuners:

Hipshot makes a version of their key that's designed to clear over the top of the adjacent tuner. I have a photo somewhere, but I can't find it just now...

 

[eddododo]

You mean like @Beej is doing here -
Winter Build Off 2020 - Malefactor 5

beej to the rescue again!

 

[Beej]

beej to the rescue again!

haha that's only because I coincidentally post too much

My own thoughts on it:

Make templates for the slots - cutting the slots in the headstock and filing/sanding them to shape was a pain (I did it on my "proof of concept" before building the WBO entry). The template saved +++ time and made it cleaner.

The headstock has to be at least as thick as the tuner "backing plate", plus a few mm on each side. I used narrow-post Gotoh tuners with 18mm wide backs, so that meant my headstock needed to be at least 20mm thick. The post hole is 14mm wide, so I drilled it out with a 13mm bit and filed/sanded it to 14mm (to keep it cleaner). That means the post holes have 3mm clearance on top and below. In the end, I sanded it down to 19mm and then was a little concerned about thickness, so I added on three layers of veneer, which brought it back to 21mm thick. I'm hoping that this thickness will be enough to counteract string pull and not lead to a broken headstock

body

• Beej
• Mar 6, 2020
• winter build off 2020

body

@ctmullins Serendipity build, David Higham's headstock, and the Stambaugh attached below were my inspirations for doing it on this build.

 

[Beej]

Here are my photochops of a Gibson slotted headstock that I used to help create the layout of 3/2 in my design.

 

[eddododo]

I've done it once or twice. Obviously it works better with the smaller tuners.

Serendipity uses Wilkinson tuners, the same size as Gotoh GB7:

View attachment 3735163

View attachment 3735164

The Teisco violin bass got some Grover Sta-Tite slot-head tuners:

View attachment 3735165

Hipshot makes a version of their key that's designed to clear over the top of the adjacent tuner. I have a photo somewhere, but I can't find it just now...

Very cool..

If you come across the photo be sure to share it if you don't mind… Obviously I'll be looking around in the meantime. I don't know what it is exactly, because it's not a bad website, but something about Hipshot always makes it just a little difficult to get detailed information about things on the periphery of their products. And while I have everyone's attention, I can't be the only person to find it really weird that hipshot does weird renderings of their products instead of showing real pictures for most of it

 

[eddododo]

@Beej That headstock design is really stunning with the asymmetrical slots, And I can't guarantee that it isn't now in my folder of ideas to possibly steal for my build

 

[Beej]

@Beej That headstock design is really stunning with the asymmetrical slots, And I can't guarantee that it isn't now in my folder of ideas to possibly steal for my build

All good. I also put up this thread to gather more ideas, but in hindsight, I probably should have just PM'd @Reedt2000 lol

Slotted Headstocks?

 

[jamro217]

Just curious, why are the tuners situated directly across from each other rather than staggered? Is it for stability, balance or some other reason? Aesthetics?

 

[ctmullins]

If you come across the photo be sure to share it if you don't mind… Obviously I'll be looking around in the meantime. I don't know what it is exactly, because it's not a bad website, but something about Hipshot always makes it just a little difficult to get detailed information about things on the periphery of their products. And while I have everyone's attention, I can't be the only person to find it really weird that hipshot does weird renderings of their products instead of showing real pictures for most of it

Here's a link to my post which contains photos and a bit of explanation: 8-string build

Yes, I know what you mean about their website. To me it has the feel of a website put together by people who are not really into websites, but they know they need to have one, so they put one up, but their real passion is designing and crafting guitar parts, not websites...

 

[Beej]

Just curious, why are the tuners situated directly across from each other rather than staggered? Is it for stability, balance or some other reason? Aesthetics?

I did it for aesthetics.

 

[TerribleTim68]

...I can't be the only person to find it really weird that hipshot does weird renderings of their products instead of showing real pictures for most of it

It has everything to do with budget. They already have the renderings from their cad/cam software so they just use those rather than pay a secondary fee for photography. Lots of manufacturing companies do it.

 

[eddododo]

It has everything to do with budget. They already have the renderings from their cad/cam software so they just use those rather than pay a secondary fee for photography. Lots of manufacturing companies do it.

I dunno I'm gonna be pretty hard to convince on this one... and you're probably exactly right, I just find it so strange. Like it's one thing for parts for my job repairing things, or a bearing for an oil drilling operation, But we are talking about guitar parts, where looks are almost exactly as important as the actual function.. And even then it would be fine by me if I didn't have a desire to figure out if I wanted chrome, nickel, or satin nickel finish and what I'm given is a series of weird vaguely grey pictures lol.

I love hipshot, and they have a fantastic story and reputation, it's just something that makes me chuckle and scratch my head every single time lol. Luckily you can also get all of it from bestbassgear for cheaper than buying direct... [except for the specific spacing bridge I need ]

 

[TerribleTim68]

I get it, I'm just saying, I deal with it from lots of manufacturing companies. I work for a firm that designs commercial kitchens. We have a sister company that creates 3D content for "Revit", a CAD drafting platform. We have tons of kitchen equipment manufacturers who specifically ask us "Can we also use your content to generate 3D images for marketing?" So it's a cheap way out of that added cost that tons of them do.

 

[eddododo]

I get it, I'm just saying, I deal with it from lots of manufacturing companies. I work for a firm that designs commercial kitchens. We have a sister company that creates 3D content for "Revit", a CAD drafting platform. We have tons of kitchen equipment manufacturers who specifically ask us "Can we also use your content to generate 3D images for marketing?" So it's a cheap way out of that added cost that tons of them do.

No doubt, And clearly they're doing pretty well without my help so…

 

[eddododo]

Here are my photochops of a Gibson slotted headstock that I used to help create the layout of 3/2 in my design.
View attachment 3735334 View attachment 3735335 View attachment 3735336 View attachment 3735337 View attachment 3735338

While this thread lives, let me ask a simpler question..

How will you tighten the thru-nut for the tuners? Crescent wrench it still and spin the tuners?

 

[Beej]

While this thread lives, let me ask a simpler question..

How will you tighten the thru-nut for the tuners? Crescent wrench it still and spin the tuners?

Mine fit a 15mm wrench best so I press the tuner in the hole and hold it tight while using the wrench to tighten the nut. I just went slowly and carefully - I mostly was being careful not to damage the paint on the nuts! Once things were tight, I drilled for the small screw and installed it which prevents the tuner from spinning in the hole due to force of pull from the strings.

 

[eddododo]

Has anyone seen any single- sided slotted headstocks? I.E. 4+ inline slotted?

 

[Beej]

Whaaa??? Kwazy!

I'm gonna draw one out right now lol