Signal splitting octave up

[Wedderboom]

Hi all,

I jam with two buddies, drummer and guitar. We play some covers that ideally would have another guitar, but we don’t have one and probably won’t anytime soon. I saw a killer band the other day, a duo metal act, and the guitarist split his signal to achieve a very bass heavy sound.
How might I do that going the other way? I don’t want to spend heaps on pedals but could justify a few. I’m assuming I split the signal to two amps - bass and guitar. I also think I probably need an eq, tuner, compressor, octaves and dirts. Am I on the right track here?
Also, the bass octavers I’ve heard give a very synth sound. I don’t want that if I can avoid it. Any recommendations for non synth sounding octaver?
And finally… would a multi effect pedal on either chain help achieving this?

we play rock and metal for the most part.
Thanks in advance
Mike

 

[Nashrakh]

If you look up the band "Royal Blood", you may get a lot of suggestions that will get you in the ballpark. I don't know what octave they use (a POG?), but splitting your signal is a good idea. You do not need two amps for this if you don't absolutely want to -- most of us who go this route just send the mixed signal to a single amp.

Octaves and dirts are a must for a sound like that, EQ and Tuner are totally optional, a compressor is a good idea to "glue" the two signals back together before sending them to your amp.

A multi FX may do all this, but I have never used one.

 

[Wedderboom]

If you look up the band "Royal Blood", you may get a lot of suggestions that will get you in the ballpark. I don't know what octave they use (a POG?), but splitting your signal is a good idea. You do not need two amps for this if you don't absolutely want to -- most of us who go this route just send the mixed signal to a single amp.

Octaves and dirts are a must for a sound like that, EQ and Tuner are totally optional, a compressor is a good idea to "glue" the two signals back together before sending them to your amp.

A multi FX may do all this, but I have never used one.

Thanks mate. I’m pretty new to pedals and chains and such. So a bass amp can handle the higher frequencies? I think I’d go two amps. Not every song we play would require the setup. Mainly when the guitarist solos and for certain heavier tracks that just need more chug. We also play some that need the distinct bassline so I’d want to be able to have the option of just playing clean. Thanks again. I’ll check out RB anyway. I’ve always meant to but have forgotten to do so.

 

[SteveCS]

My method revolves around the EHX Tri-parallel mixer to create the split. The octave chain begins with a TC Sub'n'Up mini. The reason for picking the Sub'n'Up is the deep editing possibilities of the TonePrint technology. The Sub-n'Up has pre- and post- multi-band parametric EQ that is separate and independent for the -2, -1 and +1 outputs. It also has built-in dirt and chorus based on well-regarded TC devices. And it has a polyphonic option which is essential for this application, IMHO. I use the pre-EQ to filter out anything below G2 (~100 Hz). The upper harmonics of those notes get through but keeping the fundamentals out really helps with separation.

After the Sub'n'Up I have an EHX SuperEgo and a Zoom MS-50G.

As far as being synthy goes, I think they all have an element of that in the upward shifts. Having played with the Sub'n'Up for a few years now I think a lot of that comes down to the 'noise' element of the attack being shifted up and halved in time - the initial attack of the notes just sounds unnatural no matter how good the subsequent tone, and this is true of pretty much all octave-up pedals, IME.

 

[Wedderboom]

My method revolves around the EHX Tri-parallel mixer to create the split. The octave chain begins with a TC Sub'n'Up mini. The reason for picking the Sub'n'Up is the deep editing possibilities of the TonePrint technology. The Sub-n'Up has pre- and post- multi-band parametric EQ that is separate and independent for the -2, -1 and +1 outputs. It also has built-in dirt and chorus based on well-regarded TC devices. And it has a polyphonic option which is essential for this application, IMHO. I use the pre-EQ to filter out anything below G2 (~100 Hz). The upper harmonics of those notes get through but keeping the fundamentals out really helps with separation.

After the Sub'n'Up I have an EHX SuperEgo and a Zoom MS-50G.

As far as being synthy goes, I think they all have an element of that in the upward shifts. Having played with the Sub'n'Up for a few years now I think a lot of that comes down to the 'noise' element of the attack being shifted up and halved in time - the initial attack of the notes just sounds unnatural no matter how good the subsequent tone, and this is true of pretty much all octave-up pedals, IME.

Thanks so much for the advice. Sub’n’up sounds like a lot of bang for buck. I’ll check that out. Maybe enough dirt in the octave chain could hide the synth sound? The intent is really just to thicken up the riffier parts of certain 90s rock tunes we play, not really be an element that is particularly noticeable. Cheers again!

 

[SteveCS]

Thanks so much for the advice. Sub’n’up sounds like a lot of bang for buck. I’ll check that out. Maybe enough dirt in the octave chain could hide the synth sound? The intent is really just to thicken up the riffier parts of certain 90s rock tunes we play, not really be an element that is particularly noticeable. Cheers again!

Yes, the dirt helps a lot. Even just a bit of crunch works wonders. Some quite convincing noises can be had from the on-board drive and some nifty gain staging in the MS-50G with Klon clones, crunchy amp sims and a touch of spring reverb.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Hi all,

I jam with two buddies, drummer and guitar. We play some covers that ideally would have another guitar, but we don’t have one and probably won’t anytime soon. I saw a killer band the other day, a duo metal act, and the guitarist split his signal to achieve a very bass heavy sound.
How might I do that going the other way? I don’t want to spend heaps on pedals but could justify a few. I’m assuming I split the signal to two amps - bass and guitar. I also think I probably need an eq, tuner, compressor, octaves and dirts. Am I on the right track here?
Also, the bass octavers I’ve heard give a very synth sound. I don’t want that if I can avoid it. Any recommendations for non synth sounding octaver?
And finally… would a multi effect pedal on either chain help achieving this?

we play rock and metal for the most part.
Thanks in advance
Mike

I played around with that specific kind of sound for a while. It’s pretty fun. My setup was largely based on the one in this video.


I experimented with it and the best sound I got was using 3 pedals and a di. The radial big shot aby to split the signal and running the pog into the gt2 and running the gt2 to my radial pro di xlr out into the pa worked better because it didn’t have the muffled effect of running a guitar like sound through a bass rig. The gt2 is an amp simulator pedal. So it works best direct or when used with guitars lot of people recommend running it into the effects return so you’re not stacking preamps. At rehearsals I’d just run the “guitar signal” to the aux in on my mesa subway amp. Which bypasses the pre amp, at shows it was direct to pa and I them put it in the monitor. So I had the guitar sound on the wedges and my bass sound from my rig.

to add if you like modern medal stuff with 8 and 9 string guitars. You can also get those kinds out of super low tuned guitar sounds out of the gt2 if you split the signal and run it direct but don’t use the pog. I found with just the any and gt2 running direct I could get scary close to the sound of Meshuggahs remastered Nothing album. That’s how I use my gt2 now. And if recording I’ll actually record the gt2 direct to separate tracks and pan them left and right just like guitars.

 

[JC BASS 91]

Royal Blood is a good example of that, as is the band Clatter. There is a video on YouTube where Amy Humphrey of Clatter goes over her setup on how she splits her signal (into three separate chains and amps).

There is also a video where a place in the UK tries to do the Royal Blood sound on a budget and they did a pretty great job.

I have begun building my own little setup to do this kind of thing for a personal project I would like to do soon. My problem is that I have a horrible tendency to over-research things and never actually buy them or move forward. Part of me wants to stay budget friendly, but another part of me wants to do it right the first time.

I think if money was no object, I would probably go this way: after the ABY splitter, I would run into a Digitech Bass Whammy to kick it up an octave, then into a an guitar EQ pedal, to a fuzz/OD/distortion pedal (can't decide which...or maybe all), to a BOSS Harmonist PS-6 and finally to a noise suppressor to clear out all the hiss/noise the signal chain will introduce. I have also thought a compressor might be a good thing to throw in between the Whammy and the EQ. Finally, all of that would run into my Peavey Bandit guitar amp.

Hopefully, next year, I will make this all happen. Maybe...

 

[MattZilla]

How I’d do it were money no object and the One Player Two Instruments thing was to be going on most of the time for most of the songs:

- a bass with a pickup at the neck with its own output, tone rolled to near zero- run to an octave down pedal and going to a huge & clean bass amp, and a pickup at the bridge (ideally a humbucker with a ser/sngl/parallel switch) going to HPF, dirt, modulation, reverb, volume pedal, etc., and to a guitar amp. Probably a four string tuned up to GCFA#.

- line selector pedal for leaving a regular bass plugged in and ready to go for songs that only call for regular bass guitar and sound better with Active Bass/J Bass/P Bass tone voice character (whatever your normal bass is).

 

[bigthemat]

you could get a helix hx stomp and have all the stuff you need with easy crossovers, splitting, etc. in one box. I'm a bit biased cuz I love mine, but, it is an option, and it's a killer device

 

[coy garcia]

Hi Mike,
I did this for years in a 1 guitar band but now we have 2. I found it incredibly useful when the guitar player drops out for a solo or I'd leave in on for a pounding eight notes tunes like AC/DC. I did it 2 ways splitting the signal to another combo amp (tc electronic bg250) with the built in effect of "1 fist up" which sounded crunchy and authentic. Then I got tired of carrying a 2nd rig so I added the fishman pedal. The fishman sounds kinda synthy but was ok blended with the distortion up.
If I was to do it again I would look for a tc electronics pedal with the tone print option...then the effect of "1 fist up" and I would blend it with my clean bass signal and carry one amp. It is the most natural sounding 2nd heavy guitar I've heard.
This post spoke to me cause I did this in the wild for over 10yrs and had a very difficult time getting good info about doing it. .
Good luck

 

[Bozendoka]

+1 for the HX Stomp, I have the XL and have a very similar setup. Works great!

 

[Les Fret]

Good suggestions here. Only thing that you have to keep in mind is that it can get boring after a while. Cause you are always just doubling the bass line in octaves. So you have to be really creative so that not all songs sound sort of same after a while.

Good luck!

 

[erratick]

I do this. ABY box. Bass in on the bottom of the Y. One leg- bass sounds to bass amp. Other leg octave up, then guitar effects then actually into a guitar amp.

You can A/B or both for "guitar" and bass. Where you are on the neck and strings has a huge difference on tone and chords.

When I did them both into a ampeg bass amp it sounded kind of weak. When I did it all into a bassman and amp, it sounded fine. But ampeg bass amp and guitar amp was the best sound.

I wouldn't mind having a stereo pickup rig to do that with, but it hasn't been worth it for me so far.

 

[bassbrad]

There are a number of approaches to your proposal. I have tried most over the years from splitting signal, pitch shifting and sending signal to two amps to my current version that does all that on my pedal board with 1 output.


[sfx]microThumpinator 2

> Boss LS2 > wet dry blended, easy to hit bypass

> Donner Harmonic Square- 1 or 2 Octave up

> EHX Mel9 various sounds, mostly strings sometimes flute, sax, clarinet

> Mooer Sweeper my 2nd favorite effect, mini version of Bass Balls

> Source Audio Aftershock- 6 custom distortion tones

> C4 Synth - synth, octaver, filters and more

>insert loop to add additional effects

> Ultrawave Bass Multiband processor - comp, EQ, crazy fuzz and other sounds

> Spectrum - for even more octaver, filter funnn

> TRex Quint Machine add octave & fifth up and octave down, turns input sounds into a massive wall

>>loop return

> TC Electronics 3rd Dimension or Ibanez Chorus mini

> Sushi Box FX Underground Accelerator Hand Wired solid tube tone goodness

> Zoom MS60B > utility for modulation, reverbs and delays occasionally filter or synth creations

Underneath the board is a Source Audio Neuro Hub for changing presets on SA pedals.

MIDI pedals connected to an ASUS laptop running SA Neuro, ToneLibZoom, ZenBeats and VCV Rack 2.

 

[naetog]

That EHX mixer is awesome for splitting signals.

Another good option for parallel channel mixing is the OBNE Signal Blender.
I like the dimensions and top jacks better for my situation, though it does lack a couple tone features.
It's really two loops and a clean channel, but it's great.

 

[Egg250]

Rock and metal you say? Any chance the guitarist loves "heavy riffs"? Maybe chugs on a 7 string?

If so, don't worry about splitting your signal to play a stereo track an octave higher. Don't worry about so much about the roots. Don't worry about doubling the guitar riff. Play a bass line that is complimentary to the riff, while landing on some roots (mid neck or higher). Just a thought. Have fun with it.

 

[skycruiser]

Good suggestions here. Only thing that you have to keep in mind is that it can get boring after a while. Cause you are always just doubling the bass line in octaves. So you have to be really creative so that not all songs sound sort of same after a while.

Good luck!

Some devices let you add a 5th - might be useful for the upper signal (like a power chord).

 

[Wedderboom]

What an absolute bunch of legends you all are. So many great suggestions. Very helpful all. Much obliged. I’ll do some version of one or all of these. Excellent.

 

[JimmyM]

If you look up the band "Royal Blood", you may get a lot of suggestions that will get you in the ballpark. I don't know what octave they use (a POG?), but splitting your signal is a good idea. You do not need two amps for this if you don't absolutely want to -- most of us who go this route just send the mixed signal to a single amp.

Boss Harmonist.