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Double Bass Silver Creek EUB

B

Barryll

Sep 29, 2006
11
0
Kneevada
#1
Hello All,

I'm a newbie here and an old guy, but I guess that doesn't matter much. I'm not even sure where this should be posted.

I've played BG on and off for a long time, and would like to change to a DB, but I have some issues with lifting and carrying stuff, so I'm thinking about the Silver Creek EUB.

My thinking is that the Silver Creek might be significantly lighter weight than a DB, and with some luck, it might be marginally loud enough without an amp. We're talking bluegrass here, no amps, no drums, nothing very loud at all. Most of the time we play in people's homes, sometimes outdoors at campgrounds, and very occasionally on stage with a small PA system. Pretty quiet by today's standards.

As far as I know, the Silver Creek is just about the only EUB that might have a chance of being heard without an amp. And moving an amp around is a definite lifting issue for me. Even a small one.

The main problem I'm having is that finding information on the Silver Creek EUB seems to be difficult, other than the online retailers listings. They have nice photos though. So far I haven't been able to find much here at TalkBass either, but I'm still learning how to get around.

If anyone has information about the Silver Creek EUB, or knows where to find it, could you please let me know?

What is your experience with the Silver Creek EUB?

Thanks....
 
#3
Hi you know me we have been talking for a while on RV.net the Silver Creek also has some othe aliases. It is also a Josef Lazar and Florea Lupeni. There are others but the are all the same. They are made in Romania. I have extensivly searched for the factor they are made in to get more info on them.
Silver Creek is a Musicians Friend name. I do like mine for Jazz it give great access to the lower positions on the fret board.
 
#4
I fooled with one for a little bit in a music store once. Don't know that it is significantly lighter than some standard double basses (which can vary quite a lot). I would want to know the actual weight and compare it to some other basses first. Remember that a standard DB or maybe one of these of these skinnny ones can also save a few pounds with a carbon rod, aluminum or wooden endpin and a composite tailpiece.

I love my 3/4 DB but I also wonder how I will ever move it further than one room to the next by myself.

BTW my 1/4 size Kay is significantly lighter than a 3/4. Yes, it is not as loud but I have the action up so I can pull hard and it spent many years traveling to bluegrass festivals. I play it sitting but the guy who had it before me played it standing with the endpin way out.

Best of Luck,
S
 
#5
Thanks everyone, for the replys. I appreciate it, but I'm still frustated because of the lack of information. Even Musician's Friend who sells this bass is giving me bogus info. They told me the bass weighs 70 lbs....Well maybe if it's made of concrete. They also told me the scale length is 35 1/2 inches....Hmmm, sounds like a BG. Perhaps they just don't want to sell these things.

For THE SUZIE: I hadn't considered a 1/4 size bass, is it about the size of a cello? This is an interesting idea, and I think I'll look into it. Is it really difficult to make it loud enough to be heard?

Even a 1/2 size might be good for me, considering my lifting issues.

Does anyone have any info on the weights, etc of these little guys?
 
#6
Hi Baryll,

Well my 1/4 Kay is between 34"and 35" nut to bridge along the strings. A full size cello, I believe is around 27"- 28". A very rough measurment shows the 1/4 is about 10" shorter than my 3/4. I cant figure out a good way to weigh them but the difference is very noticeable. I can heft the 1/4 around fairly easily which is dangerous in its' own way. I can lift the 1/4 up high but not the 3/4 so I actually have to be more careful about smacking the scroll into something overhead with the smaller bass.

I have never owned a 1/2 size but I know there are size charts floating around on the net.

The 1/4 is quieter than the 3/4 but using a high action does help me to get a decent volume. Heck, every 3/4 is different. My 3/4 is quite a bit louder than one of my teachers even though his bass is probably nicer sounding. So much depends on setup, strings and of course the player.


Peace,
S
 
#7
for TheSuzie

Thanks again for the info.

So far, I haven't had any luck finding weights online, but I'll keep looking.

One of my biggest concerns, after the acutal weight, is whether it's really practical to think that these little guys can actually be heard in a typical bluegrass jam.

Does anyone else have any ideas?
 
#8
Barryll said:
for TheSuzie

Thanks again for the info.

So far, I haven't had any luck finding weights online, but I'll keep looking.

One of my biggest concerns, after the acutal weight, is whether it's really practical to think that these little guys can actually be heard in a typical bluegrass jam.

Does anyone else have any ideas?
Click to expand...

As yet I have not had any trouble being heard anyware I have used this bass when I have played including it the middle of a field.
 
#9
Wow, I'm still getting good info both here and private emails. Thank You.

So far, I haven't had any luck finding weights for 1/4 and 1/2 size DB's online, but I'll keep looking.

Thank you Nohandles for emailing the weight of the Silver Creek.

Nohandles said, "I have not had any trouble being heard anywhere I have used this bass when I have played including in the middle of a field".

TheSuzie said, "it spent many years traveling to bluegrass festivals".

TheSuzie & Nohandles make it sound like both the Silver Creek AND a 1/4 size bass are probably loud enough for un-amped bluegrass, and a 1/4 size ought to be pretty light, compared to a "regular" 3/4 bass.

Considering that weight is my number one issue, being loud enough second, and tone third, I might as well consider a 1/4 size DB.

Which is louder when un-amped, the Silver Creek or a similarly priced 1/4 size DB?
 
#10
I only played the silver creek unplugged in a large loud music store with a lot of loud electric guitar wanking in the background. Hard to compare with my 1/4 at home but my 1/4 is surely quieter than my standard 3/4, maybe not as much as one would expect because the 1/4 has a mega high setup and my 3/4 has a very low and slick jazz setup. Assuming proper construction, material and setup the large top of the silver creek likely gives it a volume advantage. If it is not built internally like a regular DB, then all bets are off.

I think how well a lower volume bass works in an acoustic setting depends on who you are playing with, the size of the ensemble and of course the setting. Probably true for any setup and style of music.

Good luck in your quest,
Susan
 
#11
Slowly, the information is coming...

"Considering that weight is my number one issue, being loud enough second, and tone third, I might as well consider a 1/4 size DB."

I now know the weight of the Silver Creek EUB, and the nice folks at Engelhardt have told me the weight of their 1/4 size bass....and guess what, the Silver Creek is enought lighter to make a difference for those of us who have lifting issues.

Sooo, does anyone know where I can see and touch a Silver Creek EUB? A music store somewhere? Or? I'm in Kneevada, but if I get desperate enough, I might consider heading east to see one. Yeah, maybe even to CA.

For TheSuzie: Check your PM's
 
#14
Anyone have, or know of, sound clips of these? I'm wondering that with a shorter scale & being electric, how much better it would sound than a good quality fretless BG? I'm thinking primarily for jazz. I need the short scale because of a left hand injury that makes it impossible to play a full size neck. But I don't want to invest the money if it really doesn't sound much better than my fretless BG.

Regards to all,

flyman
 
#15
flyman said:
Anyone have, or know of, sound clips of these? I'm wondering that with a shorter scale & being electric, how much better it would sound than a good quality fretless BG? I'm thinking primarily for jazz. I need the short scale because of a left hand injury that makes it impossible to play a full size neck. But I don't want to invest the money if it really doesn't sound much better than my fretless BG.

Regards to all,

flyman
Click to expand...

Shorter scale? Mine is exactly like a full size bass accept for the body being shalower.
 
#16
Barryll said:
Hello All,

I'm a newbie here and an old guy, but I guess that doesn't matter much. I'm not even sure where this should be posted.

I've played BG on and off for a long time, and would like to change to a DB, but I have some issues with lifting and carrying stuff, so I'm thinking about the Silver Creek EUB.

My thinking is that the Silver Creek might be significantly lighter weight than a DB, and with some luck, it might be marginally loud enough without an amp. We're talking bluegrass here, no amps, no drums, nothing very loud at all. Most of the time we play in people's homes, sometimes outdoors at campgrounds, and very occasionally on stage with a small PA system. Pretty quiet by today's standards.

As far as I know, the Silver Creek is just about the only EUB that might have a chance of being heard without an amp. And moving an amp around is a definite lifting issue for me. Even a small one.

The main problem I'm having is that finding information on the Silver Creek EUB seems to be difficult, other than the online retailers listings. They have nice photos though. So far I haven't been able to find much here at TalkBass either, but I'm still learning how to get around.

If anyone has information about the Silver Creek EUB, or knows where to find it, could you please let me know?

What is your experience with the Silver Creek EUB?

Thanks....
Click to expand...

Hello Barryll,
About four years ago I too was interested in one of these, coming over to double bass after almost 40 years of guitar and BG . .
I too asked for opinions on this forum and the consenus was to go with a standard width acoustic, as the weight issue is negligable and the bulk is pretty much the same. Personally I'm happy I listened to them. A standard 3/4 size acoustic will serve you well on un-amplified sessions, and a pick-up with a small amp is really not much of a burden . . this coming from someone with arthritis in my right hand, I'm not about lugging around heavy gear . . ;)
 
#17
I'm also looking into an upright of some sort for use in a bluegrass band. I've played EB for 35 years, and have never even touched an upright. I've talked to a few people, including one of the best bassists I know, and have been told that a decent acoustic bass would be way too expensive - that $1,000 gets you a cheap one, 2-3 times that gets you a decent one. The Silver Creek was attractive to me because it *looks* like a standard URB, and could be used acoustically as well as amplified, even though I'd rather not spend even that much. After reading all the great info here at talkbass, I was thinking maybe a Palantino or an Ergo would be the way to go, but from what I've read here, it sounds like the Silver Creek might be worth saving up a few more pennies.

Frank, your comment made me wonder if I've been misled - is it possible to get a decent quality acoustic upright for $1,000 (or less)?
 
#18
rodak said:
I'm also looking into an upright of some sort for use in a bluegrass band. I've played EB for 35 years, and have never even touched an upright. I've talked to a few people, including one of the best bassists I know, and have been told that a decent acoustic bass would be way too expensive - that $1,000 gets you a cheap one, 2-3 times that gets you a decent one. The Silver Creek was attractive to me because it *looks* like a standard URB, and could be used acoustically as well as amplified, even though I'd rather not spend even that much. After reading all the great info here at talkbass, I was thinking maybe a Palantino or an Ergo would be the way to go, but from what I've read here, it sounds like the Silver Creek might be worth saving up a few more pennies.

Frank, your comment made me wonder if I've been misled - is it possible to get a decent quality acoustic upright for $1,000 (or less)?
Click to expand...

You sure can! Watch around for a used one or go to this link:
Link Removed This is Bob Gollihurs web sight. He has the EC-1 FOR 979 AND THE EM-1 FOR 1039 plus shipping. I have the ES-9 Swingmaster and I will say that it is a real nice bass. I also play bluegrass and it will carry quiet well even in the middle of a corn field. I think there are others out there that are probably as nice but I like the Engelhardt because it is the new Kay bass. It will need a little set up but that isn't to hard to do.
 
#19
The Silver Creek EUB is manufactured by Mathias Thoma in Romania. It goes by the name Thin Bass MT23EL4. I bought a blonde one from MF last fall.
It showed up at my house in a crate with a box that looked like a coffin inside. Inside that was enough foam rubber and plastic foam sheeting to stuff a mattress.
The bridge was wrapped up in this stuff and the sound post was rolling around inside the body.
Bob Gollihur told me where to place the post and the bridge.
I called David Gage to find out how to set the pickup.
the bridge didn't fit the contour of the top so I got static from the pickup until I put a cedar shim between it and the bridge foot. Now it sounds pretty good.
If you think this bass will be lighter than a full-size you're going to be dissappointed. The small difference in weight is offset by the awkwardness of this instrument.
A wider bass, especially one with violin corners seems easier to haul around than this slippery beast.
It's got a beautiful acoustic sound but it's barely half as loud as a wider bass.
Fit and finish are great on this carved top bass.
Expect to spend some money to get everything to fit up unless you're very good with tools.
 
#20
Bartedous said:
The Silver Creek EUB is manufactured by Mathias Thoma in Romania. It goes by the name Thin Bass MT23EL4. I bought a blonde one from MF last fall.
It showed up at my house in a crate with a box that looked like a coffin inside. Inside that was enough foam rubber and plastic foam sheeting to stuff a mattress.
The bridge was wrapped up in this stuff and the sound post was rolling around inside the body.
Bob Gollihur told me where to place the post and the bridge.
I called David Gage to find out how to set the pickup.
the bridge didn't fit the contour of the top so I got static from the pickup until I put a cedar shim between it and the bridge foot. Now it sounds pretty good.
If you think this bass will be lighter than a full-size you're going to be dissappointed. The small difference in weight is offset by the awkwardness of this instrument.
A wider bass, especially one with violin corners seems easier to haul around than this slippery beast.
It's got a beautiful acoustic sound but it's barely half as loud as a wider bass.
Fit and finish are great on this carved top bass.
Expect to spend some money to get everything to fit up unless you're very good with tools.
Click to expand...

It is not that hard to fit a bridge to the top. Take some 100 Grit sand paper wide enough so the foot of the bridge have room on the sides. Then use masking tape to thoud it in place over the bridge posicion and then hold the bridge upright and slowly move it back and forth across the location you have it in. Use a pencil and mark the bottom up to see when it is fitted all the way across each foot. I then go to 150 grit and then down to 220 grit.
My bass is quit loud but doesn't have that full booming sound of a full size but it will hold its own.
 

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