You would label that borrowed even in Dm? Its not just labeled as harmonic (or melodic) minor? Im a little rusty on my minor tonality theory.....
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Simple chord progression analysis help
- Thread starter bholder
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I would, since in
I would, since the diatonic state of that chord "should" be minor in the key of Dmi. However, you are right to point out that I am thinking of this analysis i terms of the key of C. My minor theory sucks as well
If we do have
Dm7 Bdim Cmaj7 A7
I find it sometime useful to seea dim chord as a V7 with the 3rd in the root
Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 A7
Which looks pretty much like C major with a borrowed A7, a ii V7 I VI7.
Just my take.
Dm7 Bdim Cmaj7 A7
I find it sometime useful to seea dim chord as a V7 with the 3rd in the root
Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 A7
Which looks pretty much like C major with a borrowed A7, a ii V7 I VI7.
Just my take.
Confusion.
We have TWO (2) different cases of the OP's question/comment.
1. ) I "created(?)" a chord progression = PURE C major - with A7 as a secondary Dominant!
and
2. What are the chords in "Time in a bottle" as in D minor with one Bb flat and overly-overused Cliche line in the bass - moving down by a step
Without using the dropping bass line under a Dm chord, the first four chords COULD be called:
Dm
Dm(maj7)/C#
Dm7/C
Dm6/B
Each of these infers a D note still included somewhere in the voicing (the source of the Dm triad with a descending bass note). Omitting an infered D note still in the mix the COULD be called:
Dm
Aaug/C# (or Faug/C#, or Dbb5)
F/C (or Amaug/C, yuck)
The fourth chord isn't triadic as are the others in this interpretation, though, without an infered D note to fill between the B and F, so, in a four-note configuration it could still be Dm6/B unless you wanna call it Bm7b5).
Just suggestions, but the Dm with a descending bass line is still the most readable.
What elevates it above a "cliche" in my mind is the three variations on the core musical idea ("walk down from the D").
- Descending chromatically: D, C#, C, B, Bb in the first stanza of the verse.
- Descending diatonic D Minor: D, C, Bb in the second stanza of the verse.
- Descending diatonic D Major: D, C#, B, A, etc. in the chorus.
Nope. Just analyzing each chord out of context on its own in the second set of examples based on them being triads by themselves. Although, I agree that they do not all agree with the key like that. e.g.- wouldn't you agree that Db-F-A is a Dbb5 triad? But in this context it doesn't fit nicely, true. I only mean to show what you COULD call it on its own. It's much better to call it Dm(ma7)/C# in this context. The context is what many call the "key" of Dm, which is the key of F (one flat-Bb). The C# is an accidental.
I also meant to demonstrate how ridiculously complicated it can be to overanalyze.
From now on, I will “borrow” your expression, an “elevated cliche line!”What elevates it above a "cliche" in my mind is the three variations on the core musical idea ("walk down from the D").
It is based on an old musical idea, but the songwriter had some fun with it.
- Descending chromatically: D, C#, C, B, Bb in the first stanza of the verse.
- Descending diatonic D Minor: D, C, Bb in the second stanza of the verse.
- Descending diatonic D Major: D, C#, B, A, etc. in the chorus.
- Descending diatonic D Minor: D, C, Bb in the second stanza of the verse.
In short, I would have not allowed that variation in my song.
I have mentioned many times before, as an amateur songwriter, I dedicate a lot of time figuring out the best chord sonority, inversions of my chord progression/s just to be wasted by someone.
That second elevated cliche line does not “flow” smoothly, logically, etc. to me.
equally or perhaps more valid, since the roots match up.
I rarely think in terms of secondary dominants "this is a temporary V7 of the ii "
Rather I just think "this chord is a 7th chord instead of its natural quality" (VI7)
To me , as long as the coming chord is on the cycle, we can use 7th chords all day long.
( I suppose that is by definition what a secondary dominant is tho...)
My Funny Valentine is another good example, except the bass line doesn't descend. The descension is rather in the upper voices. Has to be, if the bass is a pedal tone. Otherwise, the descending notes would clash with it if too close. But it's really the same progression without the inversions. Just hold that root while the upper voices do the rest.
LOL, it gets tricky when trying to explain things to someone who knows absolutely zero about harmony theory. I rehearsed with a fiddle player yesterday who I had never met before who is filling in on a little country show we're doing tonight, just traditional old stuff like Merle Haggard. Great player, but I didn't know her knowledge level. So, I said, "If you don't know the song, you can just play licks based on the home chord." I wanted to say, "It's all mostly diatonic," but didn't wanna like a smart ass throwing around terms she might not understand. Well, afterwards, I found out she was a music major, but I was still glad I played it safe anyway. Now we can really talk.
Majored in music myownself. Just a BA with theory emphasis (1976), but it sure has helped me throughout the decades. I chose theory emphasis so I wouldn't have to perform a recital on upright bass, LOL.
LOL, it gets tricky when trying to explain things to someone who knows absolutely zero about harmony theory. I rehearsed with a fiddle player yesterday who I had never met before who is filling in on a little country show we're doing tonight, just traditional old stuff like Merle Haggard. Great player, but I didn't know her knowledge level. So, I said, "If you don't know the song, you can just play licks based on the home chord." I wanted to say, "It's all mostly diatonic," but didn't wanna like a smart ass throwing around terms she might not understand. Well, afterwards, I found out she was a music major, but I was still glad I played it safe anyway. Now we can really talk.
Majored in music myownself. Just a BA with theory emphasis (1976), but it sure has helped me throughout the decades. I chose theory emphasis so I wouldn't have to perform a recital on upright bass, LOL.
equally or perhaps more valid, since the roots match up.
I rarely think in terms of secondary dominants "this is a temporary V7 of the ii "
Rather I just think "this chord is a 7th chord instead of its natural quality" (VI7)
To me , as long as the coming chord is on the cycle, we can use 7th chords all day long.
( I suppose that is by definition what a secondary dominant is tho...)
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - A7, the chord A7 is just A7.
In ii - V7 - I - V7/ii.
But it's just my way of thinking.
More about the second dominant chords from here:
Secondary Dominants and How to Use Them
I like Anthony Wellington's break down of harmony into 3 groups:
for a 7th chord based on any of the 12 possibles roots
- the 7 diatonic chords - the family
- the 7 secondary Dominants of (1) -each family member's cool friend
- the b5 substitutions for (2) - the cool friend's more hip cousin
for a 7th chord based on any of the 12 possibles roots
