Simple chord progression analysis help

[Whousedtoplay]

Some info about "Deceptive Resolutions of Secondary Dominants".
From here.
http://jkornfeld.net/Deceptive_secondary_resolutions.pdf

 

[Whousedtoplay]

My Funny Valentine has the same kind of progression except the Real Book version doesn't have the bass dropping down. Instead it's:

Cm-Cm(maj.7)-Cm7-Cm6

Listen to Chet Baker's version.

 

[Russell L]

Listen to Chet Baker's version.

Yeah, different than the Real Book in ways. Interesting take.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Just a regular cliche line.



A simplified cliche line.



A variation of a cliche line but "not-in-your-face".

 

[Whousedtoplay]

except the bass line doesn't descend. The descension is rather in the upper voices.

In the Transcription Forum there was video posted - Dr. Dog, "Nellie" with an example of the descension in the upper voices during Chorus.
(In E major.)

 

[Russell L]

In the Transcription Forum there was video posted - Dr. Dog, "Nellie" with an example of the descension in the upper voices during Chorus.
(In E major.)

Man, what a great track that is.

I've played Funny Valentine both ways. Say, hold a pedal C on first time while guitar and/or keys do the descension, then use a descending bass line second time.

 

[gfh218]

Rusty on the theory. I came up with a little chord progression I came up with just to practice some position transitions for a song I'm working on on guitar (Jim Croce's "Time In A Bottle") and I realized I don't quite know what's going on with it. So it's simple enough, just 4 chords:

Dm7 Bdim Cmaj7 A7

Now the first three chords to me imply C major as the key, but then the A7 to Dm7 implies D minor. Is it just waffling between the two keys or is there something more going on? The transition from the Cmaj7 to the A7 doesn't sound all that jarring or "out of key" so I'm guessing I'm missing part of what's going on harmonically.

Stay in C major, but substitute c# for c natural on the A7. Treat it as an accidental. That will give you d melodic minor. It will sound more consonant than switching to D major, or D harmonic minor. Try soloing over the the changes using these different scales and decide what sounds best to you.

 

[SteveCS]

You would label that borrowed even in Dm? Its not just labeled as harmonic (or melodic) minor? Im a little rusty on my minor tonality theory.....

Yes. A7 is diatonic to the key of Dm. Not borrowed or substituted or anything else. C# is the leading tone. The fact that it does not appear in the key signature is irrelevant.

 

[bholder]

Found another weird instance in another favorite: Dylan's "Ballad Of A Thin Man": Bm F#aug/Bb D/A E7/G# G ... I think I might try moving it to Dm, better for my voice...

 

[Febs]

Found another weird instance in another favorite: Dylan's "Ballad Of A Thin Man": Bm F#aug/Bb D/A E7/G# G ... I think I might try moving it to Dm, better for my voice...

"F#aug/Bb" makes my brain hurt. Make that Bb an A# please!

 

[ciaran_hughes]

In the Transcription Forum there was video posted - Dr. Dog, "Nellie" with an example of the descension in the upper voices during Chorus.
(In E major.)

Was there a transcription done for this as I can’t find it in the other forum you mentioned?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Was there a transcription done for this as I can’t find it in the other forum you mentioned?

No, there was only a request for the bass line transcription.
The bass line, to my ears, sounds, more or less, too generic(ally).
I like the song but the bass line does not exite me.

 

[ciaran_hughes]

No, there was only a request for the bass line transcription.
The bass line, to my ears, sounds, more or less, too generic(ally).
I like the song but the bass line does not exite me.

Ah right I can’t find it for some reason. Yeah it seems pretty simple I will have to try and figure it out (easier said than done - for me anyway)

 

[bholder]

FWIW, here's what my little practice progression has morphed into:

Still not sure quite what's going on, theory-wise, but it sounds ok to me (in a twisted way).

 

[byacey]

Yeah, many songs do it, some in minor keys, some in major. Sometimes the chords actually change, sometimes not.

When a Man Loves a Woman
Forever Young
The Weight
Dark End of the Street
Whiter Shade of Pale

Those are all in major keys.

Even though the chord itself may not change, the moving bass line is forcing the change, just like the C, CMaj, C7, C6 example that was mentioned.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Even though the chord itself may not change, the moving bass line is forcing the change, just like the C, CMaj, C7, C6 example that was mentioned.

I belive he meant more like C, Emi/B, Ami in contrast to C, Cma7/B, C6/A

 

[Russell L]

Well, like it could be C, Em/B, Am, C/G, for When a Man Loves a Woman. Or the Em/B could be G/B.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Em/B could be G/B.

There is a different sonority between those two chord structures.
It's G/B.

 

[Russell L]

There is a different sonority between those two chord structures.
It's G/B.

Yeah, I like G/B better myself. Some songs, though, the other may sound better.