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Simple chord progression analysis help

bholder

bholder

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Sep 2, 2001
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#1
Rusty on the theory. I came up with a little chord progression I came up with just to practice some position transitions for a song I'm working on on guitar (Jim Croce's "Time In A Bottle") and I realized I don't quite know what's going on with it. So it's simple enough, just 4 chords:

Dm7 Bdim Cmaj7 A7

Now the first three chords to me imply C major as the key, but then the A7 to Dm7 implies D minor. Is it just waffling between the two keys or is there something more going on? The transition from the Cmaj7 to the A7 doesn't sound all that jarring or "out of key" so I'm guessing I'm missing part of what's going on harmonically.
 
#3
CallMeAl said:
It looks like C, and if it sounds like C it probably is. I think the A7 is acting like a V7 to send you back to Dm7. Just for kicks you could split that last bar in half; play half Am7 half A7, youll get a nice little C>C#>D voice going on
Click to expand...
Yeah, the A7 functions as the dominant to bring it back to the Dm7, but the Cmaj7 to A7 transition doesn't sound as "out" as I might expect it to (like a straight C to A out of context would).
 
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#5
"Time in a Bottle" -- great song! I truly believe Jim Croce would have enjoyed James Taylor levels of success, had he not died at such a young age. :(

If memory serves, the verses are in D Minor, which would make A7 the V7 or "dominant" chord.

I can give it a listen when I get home from work, if you have any more questions. I'm not sure specifically which part of the song you are referring to?
 
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#6
I consider the song's tonal center to be D. It's minor for the verses, so, the key of F in as far as the key signature goes (one flat -Bb). Then, for the second part the song changes to the key of D (major). At that point the key signature would have two sharps (F# and C#). Anyrting outside of those keys would be accidentals.
 
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#7
Mushroo said:
"Time in a Bottle" -- great song! I truly believe Jim Croce would have enjoyed James Taylor levels of success, had he not died at such a young age. :(

If memory serves, the verses are in D Minor, which would make A7 the V7 or "dominant" chord.

I can give it a listen when I get home from work, if you have any more questions. I'm not sure specifically which part of the song you are referring to?
Click to expand...
It's different in the actual song, this progression is just what I came up with to practice the Dm7 - Bdim transition. The 2nd / 4th stanza of each verse goes Dm, Dm7, Bdim, Gm7, Dm7, Gm, A7 then back to the Dm for the next stanza. So the bonus question is for the original tune, describing how that Bdim fits in the overall D minor scheme of the verse. :)
 
#8
bholder said:
It's different in the actual song, this progression is just what I came up with to practice the Dm7 - Bdim transition. The 2nd / 4th stanza of each verse goes Dm, Dm7, Bdim, Gm7, Dm7, Gm, A7 then back to the Dm for the next stanza. So the bonus question is for the original tune, describing how that Bdim fits in the overall D minor scheme of the verse. :)
Click to expand...

Are you talking about underneath "ternity" on the line, "Save every day, 'till e-ternity passes away"?

I don't have the world's best ear, but I'm hearing Bb, not B natural. B natural seems to clash with the vocal melody.
 
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#9
Mushroo said:
Are you talking about underneath "ternity" on the line, "Save every day, 'till e-ternity passes away"?

I don't have the world's best ear, but I'm hearing Bb, not B natural. B natural seems to clash with the vocal melody.
Click to expand...
I'm going from chords I found online (here: Jim Croce - Time In A Bottle (Chords)), but they seem to fit my recollection of the melody - of course, I haven't listened to the original in decades. But yeah, right about that spot. Here's my current crappy practice take on it with a sore throat, you can tell the B diminished because I consistently flub it up a bit.
 
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#10
bholder said:
So the bonus question is for the original tune, describing how that Bdim fits in the overall D minor scheme of the verse. :)
Click to expand...

I'd have to go back and listen, but I think it's not a Bdim but just a chromatic embellishment over the static D minor chord, i.e., root movement D C# C B over the Dmin, so you end up with a Dmin6 voiced B A D F. He may actually take his finger off the A and play open G string, which is just a G7 chord voiced B G D F.
 
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#11
Febs said:
i.e., root movement D C# C B over the Dmin
Click to expand...
That's how the first stanza goes, but listen, the 2nd one is different, though the melody over it is similar. There's supposedly a note-for-note transcription on that site as well, I'll try to work through that and see what that has to say on it.
 
#13
Febs said:
The chord chart you linked to has a Bminor chord listed, not a B dim, which is almost certainly wrong.
Click to expand...
Right or wrong, it's a B dim not a B minor on that site. It's listed as B-, and if you go through the fingering choices, yes, they clearly do mean diminished. I've no idea whether it's right or wrong according to Croce's original, but the B dim sounds right to me in context. A plain B minor there sounds really sour.
 
#14
Just relistened to the original. Damn I'm butchering it. :eek::woot::laugh: Better keep practicing. Can't hear the chords clearly because, of course, he's playing all sorts of embellishments right through the chords, that's the beauty of it. Sigh. Boy could play.
 
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#15
bholder said:
Right or wrong, it's a B dim not a B minor on that site. It's listed as B-, and if you go through the fingering choices, yes, they clearly do mean diminished. I've no idea whether it's right or wrong according to Croce's original, but the B dim sounds right to me in context. A plain B minor there sounds really sour.
Click to expand...
Now that I have a guitar in hand, that chord is definitely a G7. The lower guitar part is playing something like:

Dmin (xx0231)
Dmin/C# (x4x231)
Dmin/C (x3x231)
G7/B (x2x031)
Gm6/Bb (x1x030)
A7 (x02020)

Edit: you're right, there is a variation in the second half of the verse. Stand by.

Edit 2: It's something like this:

Dmin (xx0231)
Dmin/C (x3x231)
Gm6/Bb (x1x030)
Gm6 (3x0030)
Dmin/F (1x023x)
Gm6 (3x0030)
A7 (x02020)
 
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#17
bholder said:
Right or wrong, it's a B dim not a B minor on that site. It's listed as B-, and if you go through the fingering choices, yes, they clearly do mean diminished. I've no idea whether it's right or wrong according to Croce's original, but the B dim sounds right to me in context. A plain B minor there sounds really sour.
Click to expand...

B minor sounds particularly "sour" because it introduces F# in the key of D minor (the 5th of the Bmin chord: B, D, F# clashes with F natural, the 3rd of D minor).

F# will be an important note in this song, but not yet! Croce is saving the F# for the modulation to D major in the chorus.
 
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#18
I'm just astonished at the original listening again, the way he just dances around and through the chord changes more implying them than actually playing them. Far more involved than I remembered.
 
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