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Double Bass Simplified changes to "I thought about you"

J

jjqq123

Aug 16, 2017
164
91
#1
Hey guys, Ireal and real books show a different (and more complicated) version of ITAY:

Either Sinatra´s and Benny Goodman´s version start with a Imaj7 instead of a #IV-7b5. I think you can play "|I |V7/II | V7/VI | % |" for the first 4 bars. It reminds me of Indiana.

Sinatra´s and Goodman´s version do a simplified ending aswell. Starting on bar 28, I think one can play:
|IV |bVII7 |I |V7/VI|
|II |V |I |II V |
 
#2
I found some similarities with My Romance...

The bars 5-8 can be related to the ending of My Romance, but not quite. It ends up in the fourth degree. Does someone relate them to another standard?

Same as the #IV-7b5 in bar 13.
 
#3
The thing you have to understand about the Real Books (even to some degree the Sher books) is that even the standards are transcriptions of specific performances. I don't know if they still do it, but the edition I had at Berklee had the recording annotated in the small print at the bottom of the page. So when you're looking at, by way of example, MY ROMANCE, you're looking at Bill Evans changes, not the composers. It gets really egregious when you get to WHEN LIGHTS ARE LOW, the Real Books (but not Sher's book) use the Miles' bridge rather than the composer's bridge. And then the tunes like EQUINOX, where it gets moved from Db to C to make it easier to play for some folk.
Pianist Mike Kanan is a great proponent for learning the original "composer's intent", most vanilla changes. And then creating your own harmonic approach (like Bill Evans or Sonny Stitt, etc. did)...
 
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#5
Ed Fuqua said:
The thing you have to understand about the Real Books (even to some degree the Sher books) is that even the standards are transcriptions of specific performances. I don't know if they still do it, but the edition I had at Berklee had the recording annotated in the small print at the bottom of the page. So when you're looking at, by way of example, MY ROMANCE, you're looking at Bill Evans changes, not the composers. It gets really egregious when you get to WHEN LIGHTS ARE LOW, the Real Books (but not Sher's book) use the Miles' bridge rather than the composer's bridge. And then the tunes like EQUINOX, where it gets moved from Db to C to make it easier to play for some folk.
Pianist Mike Kanan is a great proponent for learning the original "composer's intent", most vanilla changes. And then creating your own harmonic approach (like Bill Evans or Sonny Stitt, etc. did)...
Click to expand...
Of course, we should all find our own artistic expression, but I'm probably not alone in feeling that I might have better luck starting with an existing set of changes that have stood the test of time, even if they belong to a particular long-past performance. Sure, I'll make some adjustments to fit our group. And of course, let's make sure everybody in the group is working with the same changes. The Sher books and the legal Hal Leonard Real Books are a much better place to start than the samizdat editions. It's always been problematic starting with the ur-text original sheet music, since jazz performance standards are pretty different from the piano-vocal-guitar (or ukulele) arrangements for 20th century popular consumption.

Also, to support your point, here's the late Ralph Patt's Vanilla Changes, still a great resource: Index
 
#6
This "Great Gig Book ('Blue' Book)" book is pretty OK because it also contains the lyrics and includes some Proven and Accepted Universal Harmonic Improvements to the published original, stock changes, (often derisively called "Banjo Changes" by one of my early mentors...We NEVER played the stock changes...ICK.)
Here is what any self-respecting "jazz" musician should expect (and be able) to hear on ITAY on even the most pedestrian(!) of gigs. (See what I did there?!)
But...Deeper listening and analysis of actual recordings is always recommended/mandatory.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.
IMG_4198.JPG
IMG_4195.JPG
 
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#8
Don Kasper said:
This "Great Gig Book ('Blue' Book)" book is pretty OK because it also contains the lyrics and includes some Proven and Accepted Universal Harmonic Improvements to the published original, stock changes, (often derisively called "Banjo Changes" by one of my early mentors...We NEVER played the stock changes...ICK.)
Here is what any self-respecting "jazz" musician should expect (and be able) to hear on ITAY on even the most pedestrian(!) of gigs. (See what I did there?!)
But...Deeper listening and analysis of actual recordings is always recommended/mandatory.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.
View attachment 3905184 View attachment 3905188
Click to expand...
I still put a F-7/Eb in bar 5...
 
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#12
I´ll bump my question again in case someone missed it:

I think I have heard this progression, bars 5-8 (from the II to the IV) somwhere else but I don´t remember. It´s not quite the Blues for Alice changes or the ending of My Romance.

jjqq123 said:
The bars 5-8 can be related to the ending of My Romance, but not quite. It ends up in the fourth degree. Does someone relate them to another standard?
Click to expand...

Don Kasper said:
is pretty OK because it also contains the lyrics
Click to expand...
Someone here wants to start a scat solo in the middle of the gig... While playing bass :roflmao:
 
#15
Don Kasper said:
Look at you taking things "off the page" & "outside".
It's like Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman had a son who plays the bass.
I would only play the Eb on beats 3 & 4 in bar 5.
Thanks, Ed.
...Blessed Day.... I exist but... etc.
Click to expand...
That's what I meant, 2 beats each.
 
#17
If you're trying to figure out the "correct" chords or what the chords "could" be, it's good to listen to a bunch of recordings and figure out what the most important harmonic moments are. The first two bars need to get you to the II dominant in the 3rd measure. I think the original has the chords descending chromatically from the tonic: I-VII-bVII-VI. I-IV-III-VI also works and is the most common that I hear today, with #IV-IV-III-VI close behind. You may notice that the chords roots that differ in these options are all tritones of each other and can pretty easily be swapped out for each other. In any case, they all go to VI7 eventually, which is V/ii.

After that, some other key points are setting up the IV chord in bar 9, the little modulation to iii in mm. 13-15, and so on. If you check out a bunch of recordings, you'll see that people have different ways of getting to these places, but the main harmonic motion is the same.
 
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#18
Don Kasper said:
Look at you taking things "off the page" & "outside".
It's like Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman had a son who plays the bass.
I would only play the Eb on beats 3 & 4 in bar 5.
Thanks, Ed.
...Blessed Day.... I exist but... etc.
Click to expand...
Ed Fuqua said:
That's what I meant, 2 beats each.
Click to expand...
You mean you guys don't play F-E-Eb in quarter note triplets on those 2 beats while fervently hoping that the melody instrument plays the same rhythm so that you don't sound all presumptuous like you were trying to ram a hackneyed lick down their throats?
 
#19
jjqq123 said:
I´ll bump my question again in case someone missed it:

I think I have heard this progression, bars 5-8 (from the II to the IV) somwhere else but I don´t remember. It´s not quite the Blues for Alice changes or the ending of My Romance.




Someone here wants to start a scat solo in the middle of the gig... While playing bass :roflmao:
Click to expand...

Bars 5-8 contain two devices that are used in countless tunes. Measures 5-6 are a sequence I learned as Golsoning (not sure if anyone else has heard this terminology before). It is prominent in the last 8 measures of Green Dolphin St. amongst many others. Measures 7-8 are a II- V7 pattern, in this case it's like a III- VI7 II- V7 to the IV. Not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps.
 
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#20
Michael Glynn said:
You mean you guys don't play F-E-Eb in quarter note triplets on those 2 beats while fervently hoping that the melody instrument plays the same rhythm so that you don't sound all presumptuous like you were trying to ram a hackneyed lick down their throats?
Click to expand...
I'll try this next time, just to see if I can cause a Theory Major's head to explode in the audience - Descending Chromatic Parallel Fourths between the bassline and melody!! OMG, Auntie Em!!!
This is gonna be fun
Thanks, Michael!
 
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